Toddler Sleep--PLEASE help!
I've only gotten a sum total of 2-3 replies to the last 2 blog posts I've made, so I'm feeling a little abandoned here.
I am SO FUCKING MAD at H right now. She's been taking so long to fall asleep for the last month that I always fall asleep in the process. This is maddening on multiple levels. Means I haven't gotten laid, means I have no social life, means I am not able to get ANYTHING done, means she's not getting enough sleep because she's holding out until like 11 most nights, means we're both mad at one another.
I've tried just letting her cry it out with the gate up; she climbed over the gate after 5-10 minutes. Obviously, a crib would not help us.
We co-sleep. I'm not really willing to stop that for this problem, but I do think this is a solvable problem. It has to be.
Tonight, I managed to flake on calling a guy back because I fell asleep getting her down. I like this guy (not Hardware Store Guy, I've given up on him.) So not only do I feel like a huge flake, but I really resent her right now for robbing me of a chance to get to know more about him. It sounds fucked up, it probably is, but I don't get any guilt-free time without her. Period. Abusing my childcare assistance is the only way I get the time, right now, because her sleep schedule is so fucked up.
She should be going to sleep by 8. Not 11. I've been spending FOUR HOURS PER NIGHT doing the bedtime routine (sometimes a bath, always diaper change, PJs, read three books, then lay down and snuggle with the lights off until she's asleep). Does the routine need to be longer before the lights out stage? How will she affiliate it with sleep if she takes three hours to fall asleep? She's overtired, I know she is, from a month or two of not getting enough nighttime sleep. How can I correct this? NOW. I don't want to check out _The No-Cry Sleep Solution_ for toddlers again, it didn't really work the first time, and it took me too long to read the damn thing that I got fines for returning it to the library four months late.
I'm so angry. I mean, trying to put it in perspective, of course this guy isn't worth it if he can't forgive me that; it's not so much that. This is months of accumulated anger and resentment over having my only guilt-free alone time taken away from me. I'm seriously tempted to just find a fucking door for the bedroom, install a door knob with a lock on the OUTSIDE, and just lock her in there after the bedtime routine. Let her cry it out. She'd be terrified, hurt, confused, but I just don't know what to do!? This current arrangement isn't working for me! She just spends hours finding little tasks she has to do before laying down. I threaten her with me leaving the room again, and she freaks out, and then the whole process starts over again.
25/MN and WA. Queer, veg, single, AP mama to DD2.5.
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I'm sorry, mama, I wish I could be of some help. Your girl sounds a lot like my boy. We co-sleep and he also won't go to sleep without us with him. And most nights it's in front of the t.v. (parents of the year, anyone?). We do our routine of bath, vitamin, brush teeth, books, etc. Then turn out all the lights, turn t.v. low, and just let him settle down and he eventually passes out. We usually start this process around 7-7:30. If he hasn't fallen asleep by 8:30 then we move it into the bedroom and lay down. Recently he's not so bad and knows it's time to give it up. But sometimes he'll fart around and toss and turn FOREVER. Which, like you, usually leads me to fall asleep with him. And that would be fine except that after he goes to bed is usually when I get most of my work done. The other night I fell asleep with him and slept for 2 hours, then woke up and worked for another 3 hours. Ugh.
I've done the cry it out thing once, and that was months ago. It was cruddy, he cried forever (of course). He finally fell asleep, but just kept waking up and crying. I don't know what he'd do now if we tried that. Well, yes I do, he'd cry for hours I think! He's not going to give up that easily.
Anyways, none of that is actually very helpful, just wanted to commiserate. It will pass, but that doesn't make it any less sucky now 
Keep us updated on your progress, I need to do something like this. I'm not sure DS would fully comprehend a chart just yet, but maybe I under estimate him. I've just been too lazy to really work at it. Good luck!
We've tried it all in the last three years, and it seems like mostly we've all just come to an understanding that L is not going to go to bed easily, and I feel much less angry about it now than I did a year ago. Most recently the problem is her sleeping too much/too late with her day time nap and thus not being tired enough to fall asleep at night. We still snuggle her to sleep (in her own bed, with her sister), though it can take up to an hour. After about 20 minutes of singing and talking, I tell her it's ok for her to keep talking quietly but I'm all done talking. Thus we stop interacting . . . but she will often chat to herself for another 30-40 minutes! These days I don't mind, and I was just like this when I was a kid. I guess it's what she needs to unwind at the end of the day. As for crying it out - it never worked for us though I've tried it for short stints when I'm home alone and I just can't take it anymore. I have to admit that having a co-parent to take over on the nights when I'm loosing it, is pretty helpful. Without that I think you have to try some other keep-mama-healthy strategies. good luck!
DP's son is 2 and often has a hard time falling asleep. He too will be up at 11 just hanging out. We end up reading him to sleep, but after the first 2 picture type books, I switch to Paddington, or Jack Tales or something with a lot of words and no pictures, and I read it real slow and soft, so it's boring.
What about some chamomile or valerian drops for kids?
Does she still nap? My kids were so different - DS absolutely needed a nap, he was one of those kids where getting enough sleep meant sleeping better. DD is totally different and has never been much of a napper. In our house sleep is totally essential, so I hear you on that. What helps for us: no screen time in the evenings, sit down dinner togetherly as possible and at the same time each night (we eat around 5:30), play time, bath if we have time, a set number of stories every day. We don't stray from the routine very often, it causes a lot of problems and kids need to sleep. Any lovey things your DD needs, too - we have a gazillion things we have to do at bedtime: light at the right level, count the glow in the dark stars, dump a bin of soft friends on top of her, 10 kisses and ten hugs, etc., etc., etc.
"Step off my big ass."
- Anthromom
but i know that you need her to sleep in a better way.
toddler bed.
and podcasts of kids stories, that what works for us.
{erased}
I didn't read your post clearly enough. Sorry!
Find ecstasy in life; the mere sense of living is joy enough. -- Emily Dickinson
You want to do what you think is right and what matters to you, and if other people don't like it, as my father would have said, they can go fuck themselves. -- Amy Bloom
My older son started pulling this at about 2-1/2. He wouldn't go to sleep before 10pm, but usually after. So we cut out his afternoon nap, and BAM! he was out by 8pm. For the first six months he'd still get cranky in the late afternoon, so we substituted quiet time for naptime - sitting and reading a story or watching cartoons and having a snack at about 3:30 in the afternoon. It was a little bit of suck not having the nap anymore, but the full, luxurious nights of sleep totally made up for it.
Good luck. Not getting sleep is so tough. It affects everything!!!
Ok, the mad thing is you. You are mad because it's inconvenient and taking too long for you - and being mad is fine, but try to realize that it's your stuff, not hers. She is a child and she isn't supposed to go to sleep in any specific time frame, nor is she supposed to sleep a certain number of hours automatically (this is different from how much sleep she needs). I totally hear you though, B has always been a long-time-to-go-to-sleeper, and it's driven me crazy for periods of time, so please understand that I am not blowing off your problem and i don't think you suck because you are mad. So talk about the mad to friends, and here, yes. But she isn't the problem. The problem is that you want her to go to sleep faster/better/easier (as opposed to the problem being that she doesn't got to sleep faster/better/easier). You are mad because you aren't getting what you want. That is an easier starting point for solving this deal, I think.
Next, I think cosleeping is not the issue. Maybe changing sleeping arrangements would help because it would be something new, but if you want to cosleep and she does, do it. We did for a long time, then we got the damn toddler bed (which I put b to sleep in every night, and every night he ends up in our bed and I like him in our bed - my husband bought the toddler bed, but neither of us attempt to keep him in there if he wakes at night, and he does).
So I don't know H, so I can't suggest something based on her personality. The things that worked for us were: I told B that it was his job to put himself to sleep, that he was old enough to do it, and I would still read to him and sit with him (so our bedtime routine didn't change at all) but he had to put himself to sleep - this worked for him. He cried about it a ton the first night, but then went to sleep faster, without my intervention (what changed was I didn't tell him what to do or not do once I was done with the story, and he seemed to take the responsibility for falling asleep, it doesn't make sense, but it worked.) I read while he falls asleep, so that keeps me awake usually and i get to read, which I love. I read silently to myself, I do not read him to sleep.
The other thing that worked was realizing when he was done with naps (and also trying out different starting times for bedtime until one seemed good). We don't bathe before bed because it gets B so wound up. Any routine takes a while to get into, and if you want things to change you may need to do something totally different for a few nights just to break your cycle - but something fun or interesting, not just random weirdness.
And for me what helped was realizing that kids aren't ever convenient, and the more I want that or the more I try to get bedtime accomplished so I can do something, the harder it is. Because I just want to get away and every twitch and cute little blinky eyed question makes my blood boil, and he knows that. When I resign myself to getting nothing done it does go better.
But yeah, it totally sucks that you can't do things you want to do, and get a break and have a chance to breathe and date and such.
On the little tasks before bed, tell her she can have three (or some number that won't kill anyone) and then that's it - or better, ask her how many things she gets to do, and then see if that works. And if threatening that you will leave makes it worse, don't. I tried that with my son and it just makes him miserable and things take longer.
Take care. I hope she gets some sleep and you get some rest and stimulation and time.
Sound slike you're missing the sleep window a bit. Can you start the bedtime routine a half hour or hour earlier? If my guy doesn't get in the bathtub by 730, we're screwed. Nights where we're in the tub at 7 go so much easier. He went through this at about 2, 2 1/2 and now at 3 1/2, I'm happy to report he's a good sleeper. This will pass. If you miss the window where she is sleepy but not sleeping, the rush of adrenaline (for you and her) will screw up any chance of sleep again for hours, as you've noticed. Try to wind down by degrees and be as disconnected as possible in that post-bath, pre-sleep time while she's trying to conk out and you're counting the minutes. I had to learn to sit upright in bed with my guy (so as to not fall asleep myself), or just let him cuddle my hand/hair/arm, NOT the whole body. You can't force sleep, mama, but you can lead her to it and hope for the best. It will pass. Let us know how the chart goes-- I want to start one too but am too darned lazy.
Seb was so hard to get to sleep that I thought I might actually beat him.
A lot of what Henry said is right, things changed for us when I saw my anger as MY anger and dealt with it myself.
Here are the tools we used:
1) very straightforward, consistent and predictable bedtime routine (with a checklist that was more for me than him)
2) "back to bed" - a s*pernanny technique, likely the only one of hers that I like - after bed when the child gets up, you just walk them back to bed... yes, over and over and over and over and over - google it, I remember she had it on her website.
3) "cards" - every night Sebastian gets 3 UNO cards, they're a bit like hall passes, he can trade them for a water re-fill or just to check in on us, they help with the sense of being 'trapped' in his room @ night and he can manage all the 'what-ifs' (like "what if I need to poo?" "what if I get scared?" "what if I fall out of bed/wet the bed/hear a strange sound." For us, it was the only way to make #2 work because we all had valid concerns about the rigidity of it.
4) No more snuggling to sleep. We do lots of awake snuggles to make up for it, Drew and I had the same issue you're having, of falling asleep in there, it would drive me batty because I'd feel like the whole night was thrown off.
5) Confidence that kids really can put themselves to sleep on their own (Rigby goes to sleep like a champ thanks to either good genetics (her dad can sleep any time any where) OR everything we learned in our many years of struggling with Sebastian). Also realising that my son is like me, with the mind that races, so we let him put on music and let him bring a light and a book into bed.
Prepare yourself for it to get harder before it gets easy. Sebastian threw every single trump card he knew and a few shiny new ones at us. My best defense was to stay busy, eat trail mix (because it quieted my gut reaction and gave me time to think), and remind myself that I'm not being abusive (with the whisper that if I didn't do something about his/our sleep I might become abusive).
No sleep is hard. Really hard, because here you are trying to change things when you are at your absolutely most depleted. But remember, the second best time to plant a tree is today, if you get you and your daughter the rest you need and deserve, your life (and all that entails - dates, sex, personal time) will be there.
I wish WISH WISH I could help. Like physically be there to help - please email me if you want more of my rambly and questionable advice 
.
A and I were struggling with a similar situation recently. A complete lack of adult time is seriously depressing no matter what. Here's my advice: GET A TODDLER BED.
Don't get me wrong - I am a major cosleeper. A literally slept on top of me for more than a year. But transitioning to her own bed has made all the difference in the world for us. I do the same bedtime routine as I used to, but I sit on the floor next to toddler bed. That way I don't fall asleep, and though I am there for reassurance, she is in her own bed and ultimately puts herself to sleep. She has never cried it out, and the process has gotten faster and faster. It now takes about a half hour most nights and has cut HOURS off our previous cosleeping/snuggling routine. If she wakes up in the night, she is welcome to come get in the "big bed". She does so most nights b/t 3 and 5 AM (that's 6 to 8 hours of glorious alone time). That way I get my evening back and still get all the snuggles and cuddles that I love about cosleeping.
Other thoughts:
1)A is super sensitive to sundown/light as a cue for sleepiness, if I can hit it right and get her in bed as it is getting dark, she falls asleep a lot quicker (trying while it is still light out is as bad or worse than waiting too long and missing the sleepy window).
2)I am a complete hard-ass about bedtime requests. Once we are in bed there is no getting out for any reason. Period. She has on a diaper. She has had her bedtime snack/drink. There are no excuses. If she protests, I say "I am sorry but those are the rules" ONCE and then I only say "good night I love you". I do not engage her/discuss/answer her questions.
3)I totally agree with the other mama who said that the more I want to get out of the room quickly, the harder it is for her to fall asleep - somehow she feels my stress and frustration & it wires her. I try to remind myself that this is a short period of time to cherish (because all too soon she's going to be a big girl who'll want me in her life much less than I'd choose). When I can get my head in the right space and submit to the process, rather than fight it and try to hurry it up, she always goes to sleep MUCH faster.
Good luck. I feel for you. --gm
This I like 
We have a toddler bed in our room, but DS doesn't sleep in it. He did for a little while, then we back slipped and now he's in our bed full time. I really like your #2. This post gives me hope!
she's still not a great sleeper, and neither am i.
i also got angry, even though i knew it was silly. i think sleep is one of those basic needs that inspires rage when it's deprived, like taking food from a hungry person. that after 9 pm time was mine. it was all i had. when something happened to take that from me, it didn't always make me angry, but sometimes it really did. like, if she was sick and it was like the third night or something. and if my insomnia was acting up and i was on my fourth night without sleep, and she would have a burst of energy during my only window of being able to get to sleep.
i didn't even read the advice, i just wanted to commiserate. been there.
oh one thing, make the whole house quiet for two hours prior to bed. no tv, no music, only books and nice conversation. that actually did help. two hours is a long time, but it was necessary. we tried shorter but it didn't work.
We still have to stick to his bedtime routine. I remember feeling resentful sometimes about bedtime drama when he was wee!
1. Let go of that anger. If you feel it, don't let it show. She doesn't give a shit about your needs and it's developmentally appropriate for her not to.
2. Work out a routine for her bedtime and stick to it as rigidly as you can. For us, this is dinner, bathtime, jammies, brush teeth (when he was still in diapers, a bottle or sippy full of water), pick one toy to sleep with, story, hugs and kisses (when he was really little, a backrub), then goodnight. Whatever works for you!
3. turn on nightlight and shut her door, or leave the door cracked and the hall light on. If she's up and playing, turn off the nightlight or shut the door after giving one warning that it's time to go to sleep and she needs to be in bed.
4. it's ok to be the hardass; especially if you know she's ready for sleep and you've worked out a routine that works.
5. Make sure she's had enough time to play and run around during the day.
6. Work out a cutoff time when she needs to be home and chill before the night routine. In my house it's about 1 hour before dinner. He needs to have some time to chill. Play, watch a quiet movie, read a book. We still stick to this and he's 8.
7. If she's overtired it might make her less able to self-soothe and get herself to sleep.
One of the best tools we can give our kids is the ability to self-soothe and get to sleep on their own.
The pictorial graph of your night routine is a great idea! I drew one when DS was about 1.5, he really liked it. We stopped needing it when he was about 3; I drew a picture of a plate of food, then a bathtub with a duckie and bubbles, then jammies, then a toothbrush with toothpaste on it, then a teddy bear, then a book, then a sippie cup, then him and me hugging, then him laying in bed with his eyes closed and I wrote "sleepy time!".
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So I did some research. I think I have a plan.
Make a chart with pictures of our bedtime routine. Go through them religiously, every night, trying to start around the same time. Refer to the chart with H. Last step on the chart is H falls asleep. Do that with her for a week or so while staying in bed with her to fall asleep, perhaps.
Then, switch to the cry-it-out method. It's time. I resent her, this current setup isn't working for her (not going to sleep) OR me, so I'm ready to let her cry a bit. How to keep her physically in the room is a problem, let alone the bed. Maybe I need another baby gate, one to put above the other? I'm scared it would be too dark and different with a full door that's shut and basically locked, because she can open doors that aren't.
Maybe I'll do a week or so of sitting on a chair and knitting on the other side of the gate, so she can see me and knows I'm there, but won't be so distracted by me.
Any other ideas? Thanks for the reply, Bleu. I do appreciate it. It's good to know that other parents go through this, too. I wish my non-parenting friends would be a bit more understanding, but I guess that's not very realistic.