Kids are people
So why don't adults treat them that way?
I have a friend. She's always late to meet me for lunch. Do I:
a)reward her with clapping, praise and a cookie if she's on time, and maybe a sticker and if she gets enough sticker she can have a prize.
b)punish her. If she's late she gets a time out AND doesn't get a cookie after lunch
c)get over it and accept her OR tell her I have a problem with it and then accept that she may or may not change her behavior OR bitch about it to my husband but love her anyway.
And how about my son when he does stuff that is irritating, not totally considerate, but doesn't hurt anyone?
A five year old is in a coffee shop reading a book quietly. She is called "good" by passing adults.
Later the girl gets up and wanders around looking at the artwork (her mom is talking to a friend still) and two adults say she's restless, a third comments on how thoughtful she is to be looking at the art. Later still (she's been in the coffee shop for well over an hour and her mom is still busy)she starts whining to her mom and tugging on her clothes and pouting. Now she's "naughty", "what a brat", "poor thing", and "I would never have a child like that". During this same time period adults in the shop have been quieter, louder, moved around more and faster, been raising their voice at the barista but no one labels any of them.
I am walking down the street with my son and two adults say hello to him. He says hello back. "What a nice little boy" says the second. Later he doesn't highfive a stranger on command and the stranger says he's shy. Then an old woman tells him she's going to get his nose and he looks away. Then she tells him he should come home with her and he says no. "What a mean little boy you are" she says, smiling.
If I walked down the street alone none of these people would likely have interacted with me, but if they did I wouldn't likely have been judged, labeled, teased and then criticized.
People don't get mad at me every time i say no. They don't touch me without asking much. They don't touch my head and face without asking or being close friends. They don't tell me who and how I am upon meeting me once.
Parenting books are so often about how we can change our kids behavior through trickery, manipulation, lies, giving them two options they don't like either of, praising them, threatening them, punishing them. But what about who he is and what he is and who he is becoming and his dreams and ideal? Where do they fit in when it's all about behavior?
He's not a dog. I don't want to use behaviorist techniques to shape his behavior. So that he will do what I want when I tell him to do it. Do I?
He's my equal. I have an enormous amount of power over him because I am his mom, his main squeeze, his one (for now at least). So shouldn't I use my power with thought and care? Shouldn't I be as gentle as I can to guide him where he wants to go? OR was he born bad, and it's my job to reform him. I know him. He was born good and true. So I can respect him, and teach him what will hurt him, and explain how people like to be treated and why. Explain that he shouldn't hit people because it hurts them, not that he shouldn't hit because he will get in trouble. Let his reward for being kind be the kindness and love that people give him for doing it, not making kindness = cookies. Not that cookies are bad. We both love cookies.
If I always tell him what to do and when and how and where, how will he know what to do and when and how and where when I am not there? How will he make good choices later if I make all his choices for him now?
I think he should do mostly what he wants. And mostly he does, and almost every single thing he does is pretty cool. He's four, he's a good person. And sometimes we have conflicts, but are they behavioral problems? Developmental problems? Or do we just not agree and refuse to listen or compromise together?
- Henry's blog
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Wow that was well stated. Wonderful even. I wonder if I could pass this blog on to others? It's beautiful, I totally agree, and it needed to be said. Thank you.
"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth." -Buddha
very well written. i think you should write a book, "How To Interact With and Treat Children." i often find myself thinking that it is the grown ups that need to learn some new behaviors.
having said that, and i agree with what you wrote, too, it is really hard to put all my idealism into practice every moment of the day. sometimes, i bribe. sometimes, i threaten. and i catch myself doing it and am like, "ooops! shift gears!" and i also think it is my job to teach my children appropriate behaviors, which is really in my eyes teaching them how to be true to their nature with kindness. "be the change you want to see" comes from a behaviorist's perspective. sometimes, in order to create positivity, i have to go against the negative knee-jerk reaction i have to someone/thing and behave with honest and kind communication. of-course, some adults would think a child doing this would be "rude"! but i think it would be awesome!
i hate the way adults expect a certain robotic behavior for children but run stupid themselves. i too am going to share this piece with others. thank you for writing!
you have put into words what i often think about. these observations are very true, and your child is a lucky one to have a very perceptive mama!
there's no government like NO government!
~hildare
I completely agree!!!
It's my personal pet peeve, when total strangers call my baby "good" - which they do A LOT. In fact, strangers and people we know/are related to. Because she is a very easy-going baby. So she's not pitching fits or crying or whatever negative thing people expect little babies to do. But, as much as I'd like to take the credit for her general happiness and whatnot, in reality, it's just who she is. And if she wasn't like that? She'd still be "good" in my eyes. So I always say very firmly when people say she's "good" that she's easy-going. I'm not sure people get the message, though.
That's kind of a little side issue. But yes, I'm not sure why we still have this culture that if children are quiet and barely noticable then it's good but if not...urgh. You are so right that many books are all about how to control/manipulate our children into behaving and that most of them seem to assume that children are naturally BAD and need to be socialized into decent humans. Mind-boggling!!!
Also- I giggled: "Not that cookies are bad. We both love cookies." Me too! T. would too if she had one!
Find ecstasy in life; the mere sense of living is joy enough. -- Emily Dickinson
You want to do what you think is right and what matters to you, and if other people don't like it, as my father would have said, they can go fuck themselves. -- Amy Bloom
I totally agree and it's been really bugging me lately too. But mostly because I've been starting to notice how much of this silliness I still perpetuate.
I feel so self-conscious lately as I try to resist saying anything and just watch, (instead of labeling and judging). It's tough.
i couldn't agree with you more.
even among progressive people, there is the sentiment that children should be seen and not heard. expressing themselves when they are joyous is OK, as long as it is not disruptive to the adults, and expressing anger, fear, or impatience is def. a no no. it's certainly not fair.
and to some extent (although no one would ever say it like this) many people think of children as though they are property. they are not free and must bend to the will of any and all adults around them. sigh.
i am a hopeful future mama: conceived on May 1, 2009 and due January 22, 2010!
I especially like the good friend analogy. of course you would not interact with her in this way...because she is not a small child. Kids are indeed people, but they are not adults. It is impressive to see a new person of this age speak clearly to adults or sitting quietly, because as any adult who has been around a person under 6 years or so for more than a few minutes knows, this is a very, very difficult thing for them to do. So people say, oh my! what a good child, because a beyond-their-years level of self-control and maturity is assumed or it is assumed the child is trying, working very hard to be still or to express themselves or whatever. I think that is what people are praising...
Personally I think people ages 1-3ish are very much like dogs in their behavior, 3-6ish less so but still a little canine. and I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Dogs are dogs. People at certain age groups act very much like dogs. It is what it is. Dogs aren't bad creatures for how they act, and neither are kids. I must say I am deeply impressed at what seems to me to be acres of patience and personal reserves in you; I am lacking those. I simply did not have it in me to let my kids, especially my sons (!!!!!)(extrememly high energy levels!!!!)(aaaaaaaaaaagh!!!! LOL)'do mostly what they wanted'. oh my, are you serious?? To me that makes you seem so...saint-like LOL. My attempts at doing so (letting them do whatever they mostly wanted) resulted in them climbing onto the roof, walking around the edge of the balcony, dashing into the street and so forth. Then there were the minor more mundane horrors of wee people I'm gonna-do-whatever-the-fudge-I-mostly-want-to-do behavior, such as pissing in my plants (the floors, the walls, etc), running through stores, throwing things, breaking things, and in general acting the fool.
Giving them non-violent discipline and structure including pavlovian behavior techniques helped us all a great deal, as well as changing our environment to suit their age levels (e.g we got rid of glasses, glass dishes, containers, etc so did not have to worry about them breaking glass, stuff like that). Just like you can train a dog to not poop on your floor or tear up your house or bite others or run through the streets, you can do the same with a small kid.
My mothering life became sweet again and I was able to relax and enjoy raising my children. how do I put it? I learned...how to prevent most fires in the first place rather than spending my days putting out fires, you know? But my experience in child rearing is not for everyone! I really really like reading about how other people raise their kids, and I'm curious to see how your experience with your child will turn out. definitely keep writing about it!
I wonder if Cesar Milan would be as good at helping toddlers as he is dogs? LOL! Maybe him and the Nanny shows could team up and compare notes? Your dog analogy cracks me up. I kind of get it, kind of don't. None-the-less, funny stuff.
Ha ha ha! Yeah, I don't really get dog analogies when it comes to raising children either. I can raise a child easy. But there is no way in hell I can take care of a dog. And I think you're treading on dangerous territory when you compare dogs and children anyway. Best to leave that one alone.
i wish i could lock max up in a crate while i left the house!
Bwahahaha!
every other episode I'm getting scarred for life so I really should stop watching it, but there is a very funny episode w/cesar milan where he teaches cartman's mother how to make him behave using dog training techniques. It was hysterical!
seriously tho ugh everyone has to find and walk their own mothering path for sure...but I see/read/hear about mothers having such a hard time when their kids are wee and it truly does not have to be that way; the hardness can be minimized and the joy and happy levels f or both mama and kids increased by meeting/treating children where they are. in any case they will grow out of the puppy-acting stage whatever you do, but why not make that stage easier on you both. This was one of the lightbulbs that radicalized my mothering world!
I'm asserting my dominance"! Loved that one!
how old were your kids when you had this lightbulb? i think as children get older, it does get easier for most folks. and no matter how you shake it, the early years are challenging. unless you have mega hands on support, it is a learn as you go process that presents lots of conflict along with opportunities to learn. i know as my kids are older, i feel less in the thick of it. it wasn't like a light bulb went off, though, it was more of a gradual progression to mothering being easier as i grew with my kids.
I-bop was 9, S-bop was 4 nearing 5, and T-bop was 1 nearing 2. oh yes the early years are VERY challenging, especially w/my sons, but for me I found the early years easier and more fun when I learned how to interact with the kids at their level! It changed my life in a revolutionary way. I was less crabby, had more energy, and my complaining about my children/being a mama went way way down because I was less stressed out and less resentful. They were always happy kids but this caused them to be happier also!e
yes. so true. and i didn't feel crabby until i had my second baby. i had to learn how to go with the flow with two in a way that was different than with one. but it was more of an evolutionary experience for me to get to the point where i was enjoying parenting two than having it happen over-night. the evolution is different for everyone! and having three kids, i can see why your first was nine y/o before you relaxed, cuz you still had two younger ones. something about the youngest sibling hitting 2 that made things easier around here too! anyway, i think we just started a side convo! sorry wildmama! 
PS: i was overwhelmed when i had my first, but not crabby towards my baby (others, now that is a different story - the hormones were a bitch). just want to clarify so i don't come off as always having an easy go at mothering. most of ya'll know me from when max was a wee one but for those who don't, i don't want to give the wrong impression about being a new mama. 
It kind of irks me when people say "you're a mother, that's the hardest job there is." I just don't see it as a job, it's just a part of life (a wonderful part). And it's not that hard if you don't want it to be. I think people have these expectations of what kids are supposed to be like and what motherhood is supposed to be like, but it's rarely like that. I'm proud to have the privilege, and it's only as hard as you make it.
it is a part of life! but i see it as work. not like, a paying job. its way more rewarding than that every was for me. also, i'm more emotionally invested. but yeah, i have to raise my hand in considering it to be my job. its not so much that its hard, per say, but that its the most important job i will ever have - and its kind of like computer work, i always have to update my data!
it's not just a part-time hobby or something that just comes easily and painlessly for me; it's full-time work, alot of personal investment, and slow but steady and wonderful payoff...the way i see it, it's the hardest "job" i've ever had. "and its kind of like computer work, i always have to update my data!"-- agreed! LOL
"...by meeting/treating children where they are."
hot damn! bingo! words of wisdom right there.
The only thing that kinda made me wince was "He is my equal".
Maybe I'm taking it wrong, but a young child is most certainly not an adult's equal. I'm all for kids being treated respectfully and kindly. But they are still new to this earth. They just don't have the wisdom or judgement that comes from many years of experience yet. Decades of living (hopefully) teaches us alot.
As my Dad (whom I have the highest level of respect for as a parent) used to say in a very matter-of-fact way, "Your mother and I have been around alot longer than you, that's why we know alot more than you. And that's why we ARE the boss of you".
Makes sense to me.
I take the "he is my equal" to mean that children deserve equal respect and consideration that adults get. Yes, children are different from adults, but they still have rights and still deserve respect. That's what I think of as equality. So with that, I'm inclined to agree with Henry.
I'm completely with you. Kids are little people that deserve respect and consideration as much as any adult.
I guess this reminded me of a few dear friends who had the best intentions but went completely overboard with giving their kids way more power and control than was appropriate. Then around age 10 or 12 they realized they had created a monster (their words).
Also, I would never expect perfect self control or tons of patience from a young child while their Mom or Dad talks to a friend. It's just not realistic. But I do think it's okay to teach kids that other people have rights and feeling too. It's not okay to yell and scream and run amok because it bothers other people. And parents don't owe their kids a justification or rationalization of what they are asking every timed. Sometimes "Because I'm your Mom and I said so" has to be enough.
I try to strike a balance in my parenting style. Between a heavy-handed authoritarian style and what I have seen as an very permissive, extremely child-centric approach. Seems that we have gone, in the last 50 years or so, from one extreme to the other. From the days when children were to be seen but not heard, whipped soundly just to remind them of 'their place', to an era where kids have become rediculously spoiled and catered to. Is this the 'self-esteem' movement on a runaway train? Has anyone else thought this?
Okay, my thinking out loud is starting to ramble so I'll stop here.
Oh and I did want to agree that Henry's little guy is truly blessed to have such a patient and thoughtful Mama.
I've never said this! I always give my kid a reason as to why I'm asking him to do something. I do this because I want him to know that there is a purpose to the tasks I'm setting him on, and it's not just for my own amusement or because I want to feel powerful (I'm not accusing you of doing this, but I've seen parents on power trips before). For example, tonight we were at a movie, and my son was super wiggly. I said "I need you to sit still in your seat because being wiggly is distracting to the other people watching the movie." The other day I asked him to put the dishes away from the dishwasher. He actually said "no thank you" to me! But instead of just forcing him to do it or putting my foot down because I'm the mom, I said "I need you to put the dishes away because we all live here, we all use the dishes, so we all take turns putting them away. Thank you for being helpful." That's close to word-for-word. He put them away without arguing after that. I find that the "because I'm the mom" reason brings on arguments that are unnecessary and unproductive. Anyway, I know what I just wrote sounded really critical of you! Different moms do different things, I just wanted to put in my two cents in case maybe someone here hadn't thought about it like that before and to raise my hand as one of those moms that always gives her kid a reason.
I've been in situations where I didn't have a reason other than it was what I knew intuitively to be the best decision, in that instance, I pull the, "because I'm the mom," card. I give the reason when its simple and easy for them to get. But sometimes, in more complicated situations I don't feel it is necessary for me to explain myself/reasoning. In this way, I'm giving them the gift of knowing it is okay to not feel they need to articulate every action they do or reason they do something, that sometimes it is okay to do something just because it feels right - no reason, nothing to explain. I know parents can abuse the "because I said so" card, but it can be used without it being about a power play. I've always felt this way and then recently I got this in my e-mail box and was all like, BINGO:
In response to "Because I Said So!" (WHICH YOU CAN READ HERE: http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/because-i-said-so) a new subscriber
wrote this:
> ...I think explaining the reasoning behind
> something gives the child tools to be confident
> and eventually cultivate their own power as a
> strong person. My mother always explained things
> to me and when I heard "because I said so" from
> other adults it confused me. I wanted to learn
> about the world, not be blindly dominated.
My response to her:
If you keep reading The Daily Groove every day,
you'll eventually realize that when something I
write *seems* like dominator tactics, it means I'm
challenging you to look beyond the usual categories
and explore the subtler distinctions. Supporting the
shift from domination to partnership is the core
purpose of my work.
Helping children cultivate self-empowerment is
precisely why we must see the *positive* potential
of "because I said so" and not throw out the baby
with the bathwater just because the phrase has been
used in disrespectful ways.
Living a self-empowered life means KNOWING your
truth in a way that transcends reason. A newborn
child may be utterly dependent on others, but she is
self-empowered in the sense that she's born knowing
she's WORTHY of existing and satisfying her desires.
Conventionally parented children are trained *out*
of that knowing -- conditioned to believe that their
desires must be justified. But if a baby could talk
and you asked her why she should be held and nursed
and loved, she might very well answer, "Because
I said so!" No intellectual understanding or
justification is required for her to *know* she's
worthy.
As parents, there are times when, after consulting
our hearts and considering everyone's needs and
desires, we just *know* what to do, yet no amount of
reasoning will convince our children to agree. These
are times when we need to remember that "because I
said so" is not always a domination ploy. Yes, this
is a slippery slope, but if your heart is in the
right place -- the partership place -- then "because
I said so" can be an expression of compassionate
leadership that ultimately relieves your child of
the scary feeling of having too much responsibility
and having to understand complexities beyond his
current capacity.
To be clear, I generally don't recommend using the
exact phrase "because I said so." The important
thing is to stay connected to your Authentic Power.
Offering a developmentally appropriate explanation
can be helpful, but when I see parents explaining
their decisions to their children (especially
toddlers), more often than not they seem to be
disconnecting from their power -- giving it away to
the "false god" of reason and inadvertently teaching
their children to do the same.
Personally, my best parenting moments have been
those with the fewest words. However, if you feel
self-empowered as you offer explanations to your
child, then I see no harm in it. But if you ever
feel like you "have to" or "should" explain
yourself, you might want to try the heart-centered
version of "because I said so" -- or its wordless
equivalent of simply knowing what you know, trusting
your intuition, and being fully present with your
child no matter how he or she reacts to your
"unreasonable" response.
Regardless, I appreciate that you're thinking for
yourself and not following my advice just because
*I* said so.
Enjoy!
Scott (FROM THE DAILY GROOVE)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I thought this was really interesting, of-course because it supported my intuitive impulse towards that age old parenting response of: because i said so!
It's because I don't feel like I'm in power. I don't wanna be my kid's boss, I wanna be his teacher, or his guide. Children are naturally curious. I don't want to raise a child who blindly follows orders just because they order-giver said so. I don't want him using blind faith. I want him to question what he's told, even if it's by me. And honestly, if I want him to put away the dishes for no other reason than the fact that I'm too lazy to do it, then that becomes a favor and I pose it as such. Then he's free to say "no thank you". I just don't think it's fair to ask a child to do something or to not do something for no reason at all. I think you're risking teaching him that whatever the authority says, goes. And I just don't buy into that. But then, I'm an activist and I'm always questioning authority, so I guess I'm just passing on the legacy. If what I'm doing turns my kid into a protesting, sign wielding activist that chains himself to a tree because he refuses to do what he's told just because the authority tells him to, I'd be a proud mama!
"I think you're risking teaching him that whatever the authority says, goes."
Nah, I'm not risking anything. And I can assure you that I'm raising my kids to be critical thinkers and question everything, too. I also hope to instill in them the value of trusting their own intuition which can not always be explained, nor has to. And that just because they are free to question, and should, that not every question has an answer, or an answer that will suit their needs. I don't feel the need to explain every "no" to other adults, or sometimes my only reason is, "I don't feel like it," which is what I feel pretty free to tell my children, "no, you can't because mommy doesn't feel like it or mommy doesn't think its a good idea," and if the why, why, why's? persist... because momma said so - end of story. Its not an every day or every situation moment, as I am wordy with my children, but sometimes, the situation calls for it - and I don't feel like its a risk to their ability to critically think about life. That is how life is sometimes. Ya can question till your blue in the face, but will never understand why? I don't expect my kids to always understand my explanations.
If you've never had to pull "Because I'm the mom and I say so" then you must be extraordinarily patient or your kid must be good at accepting your reasoning. I always try to explain to my son why I am telling him to do something but when he KEEPS going with the "why?'s" there's a point at which I really just can't take it anymore. "Sebastian, please pick up that cereal you just spilled." "No thanks" (he does this too *cute*... but still ).
"You have to pick them up."
"But why mama?"
"Because sweetie - you threw them on the ground when I asked you not to and now you made a big mess. You can't just leave it there."
"Why?" "
Because we can't leave food on the floor. If we do we'll get bugs and mice. Do you want to have bugs in the house?"
"Yeah."
"Well I don't"
"Why?"
"Because bugs belong outside. They are dirty and I don't want them in the house."
"Why?"
"Just because Sebastian. Now please pick up the cereal."
"Don't want to pick it up."
"Then I'm going to turn your movie off."
"No! Don't turn da movie off!"
"Then pick up the cereal."
"No pick up the cereal!"
"Yes - or no movie."
"WHY mama??"
"Because this is a big mess that YOU made and you need to clean it up."
"Why?"
"You know what? It doesn't matter why. I already told you and I think you know why but I'm your mama and I said to do it so that's the end of the story."
And lots of times after he won't listen to me and I either take something away from him or put him on a time out, I sit him down and tell him that I promise that I always have a good reason for everything that I ask him to do and that even if he doesn't always understand what that is he needs to trust that I want what's best for him and if I've told him to do (or not to do) something that I have a good reason. So sometimes just the fact that I said so will have to be enough.
I don't think that's teaching him never to question authority. It's teaching him that he has to trust me and listen to me. And I think that's important for his safety. I need for him to listen when I say "STOP!", "Don't touch that!!", "Get down", "Don't go in the street!", etc. Otherwise, if he chooses one of those moments to rebel and ignore my instruction he could get severely hurt. There are times when there's no time to explain why you're issuing an order. If for no other reason, I want my son to know that I am the boss and that he pretty much always has to listen to me for those moments when listening to me will keep him safe.
Oh... okay! Yeah, I'm pretty patient, but I also don't put up with the "why why why"'s. You didn't ask for my input in this, but I'm a big mouth. Tell me to shut up if you want. I would have used the bugs and mice reason too, but never asked him if that question. I'd have said "it invites bugs and mice and we don't want them in our house because they'll make us sick." If he comes at me with more why's then I'd probably say something like "maybe you don't know how to do it, let me help you." But I won't help! I'll SUPERVISE! Pick up that piece of cereal. Good, now pick up that piece of cereal. This is taking a long time do you know where the broom and dustpan are? Etc. I know, that sounds really passive-aggressive. But I gave him the reason and he still didn't do it. ALSO, I tend to say things like "I've already given you my reason, why are you still asking?" I don't know. I've been working with kids for a long long time, not just my kid. And this is how it's always been done, and it's ALWAYS worked for me regardless of what the kids are used to at home. So I'm not just blowing smoke up your guys' asses! I swear to you! Reasons are the bomb!
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glad you liked it. This whole topic has been driving me crazy lately.