as if "welfare queen" wasn't bad enough, now i'm realizing there's also the myth of the "child support queen".
the idea that women who receive child support for their children must be living in undeserved luxury is one that i've been hearing more and more lately, although i'll admit that i probably just notice it more since i'm an aforementioned "child support queen" myself. the latest incarnation of this ignorance that i've seen comes, unfortunately, from a good friend who is angry that his ex-wife got a tatto. i'm shocked and disgusted by his attitude and wish i hadn't seen such ugliness from him, and now i feel like i've seen his "true colors" and can't look at him the same way anymore.
"jim" lives upstairs from me and has two young sons who spend weekends with him. jim and i have become pretty good friends over the two years he's lived here, and noa and i love hanging out with him and his boys. i noticed earlier today that he had posted this on facebook: "jim is fuckin pissed off right now.....my ex-wife just showed me the new tattoo she got...$120 worth of it...nice to see where my child support goes to....fuckin bitch!"
i was NAUSEAUS when i saw it. positively sick. first of all, the fact that he PUBLICLY called his sons' mother a fucking bitch is heinous and disgusting. and second of all, he felt justified in doing it because she had gotten a tattoo with what he feels is "his" money?! ugh. it's so disappointing and pathetic, i'm not sure i can look at jim the same way anymore. it sucks to think you know someone fairly well, and then--BAM-- they throw something like this out there.
so being me, who can't keep her mouth shut, i tried a friendly reproach to his statement: "Okay, so I hope I don't sound like a total douche here, but...I doubt she opted to get the tattoo instead of, like, buying food for the boys! How do you know it was "your" money she spent and not her own? I just don't think you should let yourself get bent out of shape about it; everyone has the right to treat themself to something special, even moms who get child support. Unless you feel like the boys aren't being provided for (like, she's not buying them clothes or something), I'd try to let it go and stay cool about it. :)"
jim sent me an email a few minutes later disclosing some info that somewhat justifies his anger; apparently she just took a trip with some co-workers and then approached him shortly after and asked if he could take out a loan for her because she needs some dental work done that she says she can't afford. so i can see why he's a little bent about her new tattoo, althoug i don't think it justifies calling her a fucking bitch to his 300 facebook friends, nor do i think he responsibly portrayed his opinion. anyway, i was shocked as SHIT when people started chiming in and echoing his original sentiment, even though they don't know the "other" details that i found out later! here's what the conversation turned into:
JIM is fuckin pissed off right now.....my ex-wife just showed me the new tattoo she got...$120 worht of it...nice to see where my child support goes to....fuckin bitch!
AMY: Okay, so I hope I don't sound like a total douche here, but...I doubt she opted to get the tattoo instead of, like, buying food for the boys! How do you know it was "your" money she spent and not her own? I just don't think you should let yourself get bent out of shape about it; everyone has the right to treat themself to something special, even ... Read Moremoms who get child support. Unless you feel like the boys aren't being provided for (like, she's not buying them clothes or something), I'd try to let it go and stay cool about it. 
CANDACE: not me. Id be pissed too.
MIKE: must be nice......i'm sure next week she'll buy new shoes and a purse....f#$K her jim...
AMY: jim, now that you emailed me some other details I can totally see why you're pissed. And, uh, mike? Please tell me the truth here...do you expect a woman, just because she has kids and an ex-husband, to NEVER spend money on herself based solely on the principle that if she's getting child support she no longer has the right to have money of " her own"? This is just an issue that hits a little too close to home-- I've been "accused" of spending my own money on myself by an ex who has been up to $1300 behind in child support before-- but I just hate hearing shit like this. In jim's case there's other shit going on that warrants him being pissed, but why does it seem like so many people think of women who get child support for their kids as, like, undeserving bitches?!
BRENDA: Here is my 2 cents. . . when you have kids. . . you SHOULD NOT buy a tattoo with anybodys money. . ex-husbands or yours. . .that Money should go to the kids, instead of something foolish like a tattoo.
JESSICA: Wow. That's just wrong. The issue I would have with it is that you giving her money to help with the kids in addition to her own money. You not getting any additional money from her so therefore you can't afford "extras" like a tattoo.
AMY: Just cause I'm a sucker for a good debate, I'm gonna throw in a couple more cents....so who's the judge of what's considered a "foolish" purchase? Is ANYTHING beyond food, clothing, and necessary bills considered foolish?? I have a two year old daughter...have I lost the right to spend a single penny on myself, ever, lest it be considered "foolish" by the general public? I really don't like the idea that just because a woman receives child support it means that her finances and what she spends her money on become everyone's business. Child support is one parent contributing THEIR part to the cost of raising a child; it's not an alimony payment, for chrissake. what if the situation were reversed? what if jim had some extra money and got himself a tattoo, while meanwhile his ex-wife had no money for "extras"? would you conclude that the situation was unfair and that if he had any extra money it must mean that he should be paying MORE in child support since his ex wife is financially worse off than he is?? would you even consider it your business to judge his finances in the first place??
so far there have been no responses. i should probably just keep my mouth shut, because i doubt these are people who are going to say "wow, stranger, you're right! i was being ignorant and judgemental!" but i can't help but throw out a little defense for mamas who are judged for simply having their kids' fathers HELP SUPPORT THE KIDS FINANCIALLY. this is shit that i've had thrown at me before by adam but i just chalk it up to him being an irresponsible, immature, woman-hating dick. having him say to me "oh yeah, THAT'S cool. you're bugging me about being behind on child support but you have the money to buy new books for yourself?!" is bad enough...but realizing that there are ALOT of people who think the same way is sickening. painting men as victims of their selfish, money-grubbing bitch ex-wives/girlfriends is insulting and degrading on so many levels i can't even begin to touch on them all. but WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE HAVE TO BE SO HATEFUL, SO JUDGEMENTAL, SO DISRESPECTFUL OF WOMEN SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE RAISING KIDS ON THEIR OWN?!?!?!?!? i think part of it is due to classism: the idea that women who get child support payments must be poor, and poor people don't deserve to have nice things. and the rest is blatant sexism: the idea that women who get child support must be lazy, and selfish, and ungrateful just because they're raising kids on their own and someone else's money is "paying" for them. the whole thing is sad and so indicative of how far society still has to come in terms of the way women and families are treated and regarded.
ugh. now i'm all fired up and frustrated by how fucked up people can be, and on top of it i'm still really put off by my friend's attitude. i can't seem to get past how angry and insulting he was about his ex; it says alot to me about who he truly is. i'm gonna shutup and chill now; sorry for the ranty rant, mamas.
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but that's me. i just can't respect someone who trashes their ex like that, let alone the parent of their child. and hello... what kind of loser has hundreds of friends on a social site? idiot.
as to how people reacted, they're playing along with the theme. if the original post was your point of view, the same people would be making the opposite points. they're sheep, and they're there to trash and one-up and and be right, no matter what reality is. it happens on all sites including this one, sheep take a position and shout down anyone who dissents. of course you're right, but that has nothing to do with it.
i would attribute the prejudice to garden-variety misogyny. woman raises a child, holds the father partially responsible, has the audacity to live her life. $120 is nothing. christ, that's one doctor's visit, less than a pair of glasses, one hair cut... it's all about ownership. it's HIS money, HIS wife, HIS life, no matter what the woman or court papers say. she's his property and she's not under his control, and that's what's bugging him. you were far too kind, imo.
come out
i was just thinking about how if i accepted all the friend invites i got, even from my entire graduating class, it'd still be less than two hundred. plus, those people in school so many eons ago whom i didn't actually hate, i was generally bored by and have no memory of, much less want to keep up on. i just go to some people's pages and i'm like oh yeah... you have five hundred FRIENDS. like it's somehow trying to portray to the world that they have actual friends in such prolific numbers.
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honestly, if i were in your position -- and good on you by the way for speaking up for mothers -- i would follow up. since you already told him what you think, i would take it home and tell him about your theories as to where it comes from and remind him that his ex isn't the only one who will be offended when he hates so publicly. i'd ask him to explain where all his money is and what he does with it, and find places where he wastes more on himself than the $120 pittance he's so besmirched by. gah -- it must have been a little tattoo, even. ass. he will probably tell you he was venting.... he probably was. but i would feel just like you, wouldn't see him the same way anymore.
come out
i would also stop being friends with them. i wouldn't be able to get past it. not that you're about to follow my example or anything, but this comes from a person who has only a few close friends that i genuinely respect, and pretty much says fuck it to everyone else. not exactly normal either. like i work in this office and i was all intending on making nice with the other people who work in the same suite. then one day i heard them ranting that mexicans are the reason unemployment is so high and no one can afford health care anymore. i stopped even saying hi to them. don't care. so take anything i say with a grain of salt.
come out
Oh I hate it when people make bitchy judgemental comments. I suppose that since you have time invested in this character and he's a neighbour that noa gets on with his kids it could be worth talking to him about what he said and feel it out if he really was just venting an a totally INAPPROPRIATE way or if he's a hater deep down.
I think it's great that you actually typed out to him what you thought. I'm kind of a cold front type of gal, when someone really blows it in my opinion I usually just cut them off without even telling them why.
wwwpjhd? What would pj harvey do?
Tigerfish Mama
Sometimes Facebook lends itself to some useful discussions among the endless quizzes. I'm glad I'm not the only one who pipes in on people's statuses and notes when they are offensive or reactionary.
Sunflower the unflower
Mom's Tinfoil Hat
Foodie loves Picky
Sunflower the unflower
I don't think I am "confrontational" when people are being inflammatory before I am even involved.
Sunflower the unflower
i always love that argument. i say something incendiary, you confront me, and you're rude/confrontational/out of line. happens all the time. i suck at keeping my mouth shut too but truth be told, if i had any respect for it, i just wouldn't suck at it. but that's a whole 'nother story.
come out
i think it all boils down to "how dare you embarass me publicly by calling me out on my judgmental negativity?!" WAHHHH!
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that stupid conversation i jumped into on my friends facebook page ended up hitting a dead end when that chick brenda wrote "Yes, I do consider it foolish to get a tattoo...you had a child...that is ur life...u should spend that money that u threw away...and put it in the bank for ur child." which doesn't even really make sense--like, how the fuck does a person SPEND money that they THREW away by putting it in the BANK?! but i got what her point was so i casually asked "brenda, i'm curious about whether you have kids?" and she wrote "No...and I cant have any, so thanks alot. besides even if I could. . . I would still spend all my money on my child instead of myself." and then a couple minutes later "I am saying one more thing... and then I am done...because I am getting pissed. . she is taking food out of the kids mouth so she can get a tattoo..."
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i didn't even respond, because this chick a) thinks me asking for the sake of the topic we were discussing whether she has kids was some kind of personal attack and b) thinks she's a damn saint, apparently. who the hell am i to remind her that it's pretty fucking easy to judge people whose situations you've NEVER BEEN IN BEFORE?!? to be honest, i suppose that if i knew i could never have kids i might fantasize about being the frigging be-all-and-end-all of parenting morals, too. aaaaanyway, this is a bit lame, but does anyone remember the episode of sex in the city where charlotte was talking to harry and he said he could never marry someone who wasn't jewish because he promised his mother before she died?? they talk for awhile and then charlotte is suddenly silent and harry says "what's wrong?" and she says "well, now i can't say anything because you mentioned the holocaust."
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same thing, kind of. now i can't even respond to brenda because she thinks i'm some kind of monster for asking if she has kids. i'd probably just be an asshole no matter what i said, even it was "i'm sorry". just goes to show, though, that alot of people don't apreciate a good, rational debate as much as some of us around here do!
ETA: i hope im not coming off like i think people who don't have kids don't have a right to have opinions about families and parenthood, because they absolutely do. i just think it's shitty for people to condemn mothers for something that they've never had to actually consider realistically in their day-to-day lives before, you know? like, before i was a mother i used to swear that my kids would never watch TV at all, and lo and freaking behold-- there's plenty of shows that noa loves watching! and i have a feeling that if brenda were to become a parent (a single one or otherwise) she'd find it a bit harder to spend EVERY SINGLE PENNY of her money on her kids than she thinks it would be. anyway, i'll shutup now because i'm rambling. 
Clearly not being able to have kids is a sensitive thing for Brenda- as I'm sure it would be for me but then she shouldn't be making comments publicly on facebook about what people with kids should do. Not that she has no right to have an opinion on the subject but just because her not having kids isn't by choice doesn't make it any less true that she's passing judgment on a subject with which she's had no true life experience.
Sometimes I catch myself mentally judging SAHMs when I think abt how much I would LOVE to stay at home w/ Sebastian & all the things I would do with & for him if I only have time. But I can't afford to do that & it sucks. That doesn't change the fact that as much as I think I know what it would be like, I really have no idea what it's like to be a SAHM & the challenges involved so I have no right to judge- especially not to express that judgment to those who ARE in the situation, no matter how envious I might be.
if it's even true that she can't have kids, what relevance could it possibly have? it's a cheap shot to get you to back off. even if it's true.
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and i actually suspect you're giving these people too much credit, you're assuming a whole lot of thought goes into this interaction, but i doubt that too. they were most likely typpity-typing out their favorite prejudices during commercials and while posting on some message board and not thinking about what they're writing, or that it applies to a real life person who may or may not be good with money. they're commenting on this person's life for no reason other than it's there, and if someone put up a status message about jessica simpson, the phrasing is likely to be just as strong.
people are idiots. idiotic sheep. they don't care that they're wrong, or that it's unbecoming, and they're not likely to be embarrassed by what you said, because to be so would mean they read it, understood it and cared. not likely.
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see, it's one thing to sit and vent about your ex to your friend, your friend has every right to do that. but that's not what he did. he also didn't just write some random vent in public about her to blow off steam, but like you said, it's 250 of his classmates, people in the community, people who interact with his child. he's doing this to hurt his ex and their child. clearly he resents the responsibilities of fatherhood. boo hoo.
come out
That sweet little saint Brenda (that's ironically, get me right) CAN have children. She can adopt one or more so she should think before writing. Stupid lady.
AND every woman is more than only a mother, she is a person of herself. I HATE TO BE REDUCED TO MY MOTHERROLE! I am so much more. And this more needs to be respected. I have to respect it, others have to respect it. And that meens I am allowed to buy books just for me. To get a tattoo if I want to. To buy nice clothes, new shoes, a new TV. To go to yoga classes. To the gym. To live a life without the kid/s. Not all the time but now and then.
...the lover, the dreamer, and me (Jim Henson)
...the lover, the dreamer, and me (Jim Henson)
"AND every woman is more than only a mother, she is a person of herself."
AMEN to that. If Brenda does ever have kids through adoption or IVF, surrogacy, etc. then for her kids' sake I hope she's not the kind of mom she thinks she'll be. If she is then I hope she saves some of that money she NEVER spends on herself for the kids' therapy later in life to deal with how f**ked up they are from having a stressed out, uptight, bitch of a mom because she spent their whole childhood neglecting her own needs. And there'd probably be a whole lot of mutual resentment - they'll resent her for being up their asses after they're grown up since she won't have an identity without them and she'll resent them for not being grateful that she was so self-sacrificing. Bad news all around.
Children can sense when their parents are unhappy and it affects them. If a pedicure or a hairdo or even a new tattoo is going to chill mom out and give her something to be excited and happy about then that's a good thing. More times than not, kids are only happier when their parents are content (provided that the parent's contentment is not at the kids' expense). Taking care of oneself and having a personal identity does not make someone a neglectful parent - it makes them healthy.
That's exactly it. Just because I'm raising a kid doesn't mean I'm not still *me*! And that's why I got so fired up to see a bunch of mama-hating asswipes talking out of their butts (I'm so mature) about what we mamas "should" and "shouldn't" be doing. Here's an idea, haters: unless we're doing something that affects you directly or something that's absolutely directly hurting someone, how 'bout you shut your big ole piehole and keep yourself outta our damn business?!?!
I'm gonna get that as a tattoo. It's a little long, but it gets the point across.
Haha... nice idea on the tat!
And it's the mama-haters that are immature. It just conveys a great naivite about how life and human nature works.
Anyone who presumes they KNOW what they would do if or when they're in a situation that they have zero actual experience with is a fool. So there!
damn i wish i coulda got in on that one 
you were totally right to say something. everyone has a right to their opinion even those folks but the fact that the discussion didn't continue is proof enough that they got your point mama.i say something all the time in real life when shit goes down i think is wrong. good on ya for saying and doing what you felt was right. if jim still doesn't quite get the concept maybe break down for him the costs of what those boys actually need and see if his "support" even comes close to half of it. maybe he'll see it then.
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
How about flipping the question. What's he been buying lately? Cable? Meals out? Nice car? How about video game systems, sports equipment, dates? Should *he* be sending that money to his kids and not "wasting" it on stuff that he wants?
If she's supposed to be spending her money on just food and clothing, then he damn well better be doing the same.
Just a thought...
What's good for the goose...
Whoa!
My favorite is Jessica's comment: "The issue I would have with it is that you giving her money to help with the kids in addition to her own money. You not getting any additional money from her"
Um... what? Seriously? Don't people get that this woman is raising his 2 kids and that, uh... kids cost money to like house, feed, clothe & care for, etc., etc., etc.? But oh woe-is-Jim for having to give her "extra" money to "help" with the kids as if she's just some lady he met on the street and he's generously donating money to help with her children.
As far as I'm concerned it wouldn't matter if a parent who has custody of the child(ren) makes 5 or 10 times more than the non-custodial parent - they are STILL OWED CHILD SUPPORT!
For instance, even though I really struggle most of the times to make ends meet, I make at least twice what BD makes. There has been the rare occasion that I've had some "extra" money to spend on myself while simultaneously BD is struggling to come up with what he owes me in child support. Does that mean I'm obligated to sacrifice a treat I might want to give myself to let him off the hook for some of what he owes? I don't think so. I make more money but I also work a lot harder, I do all of the child care and no matter how much he gives me I will always spend more on DS's care than BD does because I'm the one who lives with DS and takes care of him every day. There have also been times that I've had to ask BD to give me more than what he owes because I needed it.
And you better believe that BD acts like he should be revered as some kind of hero for LIVING UP TO HIS OBLIGATION - even though it's really only financially that he does so. He acts like I owe him for all the money that he so generously gives to me. Nevermind that he is free of all caregiving obligations 95% of the time without having to worry because he knows I'm taking care of DS.
Damn... this totally gets under my skin!! Good for you Amy for speaking up.
Damn... Jim's a super dick! It's always a shame when you realize that about someone you consider(ed) a friend.
P.S. Wouldn't you love to throw what you've learned about the tatoo in Ruth's sanctimonious face? Who's insensitive now bitch? I know you can't/shouldn't do that to respect the privacy of Jim's ex but that would be sweet. }:)
i wonder if it would even phase her to know that the ex lost a baby and that she got the tattoo FOR HIM. she'd probably be all "she should honor the baby with clothes and food and school supplies for the other kids. and she can buy herself one special outfit from the salvation army, as long as it's torn and is in an unflattering color. oh, and she's still not allowed to carry a purse. hobo-style bandana sack on a stick, only. hey, i don't make the rules. i only pass them on."
You're hilarious!
Gotta love redemption. She works full time? He needs to STFU about her tattoo even more now.
He knew her teenager would see it? What a bastard.
Sunflower the unflower
i said it before, he didn't do it KNOWING the kid would see it, he did it BECAUSE the kid would see it. he did it expressly TO BE seen, specifically by his ex and her kids. "still friends right?" BWAHAHAHAHA
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how dare a woman should be so ballsy as to live her own life without her child's father making all her decisions for her! fucking bah. i'm not sure how to approach this IRl with jim, either; he came up to my window a little ago and said "still friends, right?" with a wry smile on his face, and i sighed and said "duh. but i'm pretty disappointed right now." then noa threw a bowl of spaghetti on the floor and things got nutty for a minute and we didn't talk about it anymore. i want to talk about this more with him; maybe ask him why he feels so justified in being so ANGRY and spiteful toward her when she's done nothing to hurt him. who knows; if it turns out that he's a closet asshole who's hidden it well til now than i may have to cut the cord.
by the way, i have 250 facebook friends. most of them are people i haven't seen since high school-- old friends i'd have no other way of keeping up with-- and a good portion of them are people who sent me friend requests that i would have felt bad ignoring. like, people i don't really care enough about to keep up with their lives now but if they want to keep up with mine i guess i should be grateful, right? anyway, i think sometimes people "collect" friends on social networking sites, but it's not always the case!
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