nazi named kids update...
not a godwin, but remember this discussion?
well look what has happened...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/011408...
i am not sure how i feel about this, i have to think about it a minute. what do you mamas think? is this abuse that warrants removal?
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
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so I would like to see what comes of this. It's really interesting.
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
They aren't saying why the kids were taken away. CPS was involved before... Something about swastikas on the car used to drive the kids around being dangerous. Now the dad has received death threats. Maybe that is reason enough to cause concern for the kid's safety, depending on the threat and how it was delivered.
Also, maybe it's a completely unrelated reason.
Nobody's saying yet WHY they were taken away, so we can't jump to conclusions. I seriously doubt it is for the kids' names..if that were illegal, they wouldn't have been able to get the birth certificates in the first place, right?
And like Dahlia said, one of the articles about them mentioned that the state was already involved in their lives. So I'm guessing they didn't live up to something they were supposed to be doing or that it does have to do with the death threats (though I think if that were the reason it might have said that in the article, I don't know why, just feel that way..)
i am sure there are 889734983274 other things going on in the home of such hatemongers, including how the other members of the community may choose to target their hate with more, well, hate. and i work with CPS all the time, and they can never divulge the details of any case, since the objects of the case are obviously minors. what a mess for those kids, though.
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
i hope it wasn't their ideology, though. fucked up though it may be, i could see someone making a case against removing v because of our atheism, kwim?
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
I agree, I hope it wasn't strictly just for their beliefs. Even though they make me sick personally, and it's hard for me to say that they should be able to teach it to their kids. I still can't say that they should be taken away for that.
there are plenty of people who think that raising my child as an atheist is sickening. not that i am equating atheism with being a neo-nazi, just that both are pretty unpopular belief systems in america, kwim?
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
well, those names are an assault. No only to us, but to those poor kids. If that doesn't show bad desicion making, what does? And those are the only way they are dropping the ball?
When a drug addict comes in for treatment, isn't the drug abuse usualy just a symptom of a more damaged human being?
Those names aren't racist. They are child abuse.
Those names are a hate crime and shouldn't have been legal. Free speech is one thing, and if any dumb hillbilly wants to start printing their racist propaganda and doing the Aryan Nation thing, thats one thing. But to have a sign outside a house that says,
" All non white people are welfare riding baby making disease sprending criminals"
Would any of us put up with that?
No.
But I would withdraw my kid from a class that had Adolph Hitler in it.
As I would a kid with a name Child Molester Jones or Heroin Bender Thomas.
What they did has ramifications, and if they couldn't see that or are so immature that they need that attention, or are so angry and filled with a love for confrontation, chances are they aren't ready to be parents.
Really.
there are diffrent levels of racism and I do know that peeople that are that transfixed thet join The Aryan Nation are not racist. They are mentaly ill and using racism as a crutch.
There are no such things as Nazis that exclude the hate of minorties and are just proud to be white.
They say that and its a lie.
They really warp their kids, and they ain't all there to begin with.
I have no love for CPS.
Don't trust 'em, don't like 'em, don't even like the way CPS looks typed, but if those names weren't a red flag, what would be?
I think they just need to get those children some evaulations and some counseling. and not the little ones. The big adult children having babies.
I also think those names need to be changed for the children's wellbeing if nothing else.
Different from you on the other side of the atlantic I can see the results of nazi ideologism every day.
There is an artist over here who makes stumbling blocks. Those are put outside the houses where jewish germans had lived, with their name and dates of birth and death or disappearance on it. In Kiel you find them every where. They are put in the ground so most people just walk over it without noticing maybe. But I see them, I am stumbling over them. And I read what is written on them. And everytime I feel like crying. Whole families vanished, died, were murdered. I am confronted with the results of Nazi ideologism every day and I feel ashamed.
Not because I am german but because I am a human being. I am ashamed that man can do such atrocity to man. I am shocked that people are allowed to give their children such names. And I am shocked that nacism and racism is still so vivid.
...the lover, the dreamer, and me (Jim Henson)
Like the other's have said, since it doesn't say why they were taken I can't really form an opinion on it yet. I don't belive that they would be taken for the names only.
Do I hope that those children grow up in a non-hate filled home and to not be brain washed with nazi bullshit? Yup. But I would hope that their parents would change their ways and that could be with them. I don't ever wish for kids to be taken from their parents, unless of course in the case of abuse or danger. And that leads to, are these kids being abused or in danger because of thier parents beliefs? I can't say for certain.
i wonder if the kids feel loved, even though their parents embrace an ideology of hate?
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
even though it's from fing Fox news:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479904,00.html
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
i mean, i think it is horrid, but i am not sure it constitutes abuse. maybe cause i see too much clear-cut abuse in my work. i guess it totally depends on one's definition of abuse. i mean, there is a person out there that thinks me letting vincent eat a happy meal constitutes abuse, ya know? or other ethical or belief-based differences. i think withholding medical treatment from a sick child is abuse, but i realize that my belief system plays largely into that, and that somebody with a different belief system sees it entirely differently. i guess i find this interesting because i have some pretty strong opinions on what fucks a kid up, working as a therapist with kids. others perspectives always help me with my never ending thoughts on the subject.
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
eye - you know, maybe if the people in their neighborhood, or small town knew about it - it wouldn't be considered abuse, because I agree, no matter how horrid their names are, that cannot be grounds for removal in a country that values free speech as much as we do.
It's interesting that the parents made such a stink about the birthday cake incident (I read that they had threatened to sue) because that actually worked to their detriment here. So many people were outraged at the names that I think that the community they live in does not want to be identified as a place that will accept that (if the names are what this is all about) and it's that sort of pressure that is prompting this action. At that point, it's not about the names anymore, it's about the embarrassment of the community, I guess.
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
in the town I used to live in.
Just fyi, yeah, many of us are pretty embarrassed to be put on the map by this kind of publicity.
See, I think it would make a big difference for me if something like that was all over in the news and defining the place that I lived - though I still agree with PM that it just doesn't sit right. Hopefully once the story is covered more fully we can hear the reason.
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
Well, funny in the sense that it must be so different to live in small town America. Here in L.A. we're so used to all the freaks or crazy shit going on.
Hell, I'd be embarrassed every day if I cared. Guess I'm just used to it.
.
Some threads are pre-Godwinned (two ns? one? I don't know!), no helping it.
I feel for the kids. What a difficult way to start out in this world.
"Do not forget. Remember and warn."
-- Plaque fixed to the hollow shell of Sarajevo's National Library
"Do not forget. Remember and warn."
-- Plaque fixed to the hollow shell of Sarajevo's National Library
weird. is dad a drug dealer? a wife beater? a terrorist? maybe they were having crazy white power bomb building meetings in the living room. hmmm. i didn't think it was their names, by the way, i just thought it was interesting.
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir
I didn't remember anything about "relationships" so went back and there was definitely more info there now.
Well, big vibes to the kids I guess....
~ if they've been removed because the parents have been targeted for having swastikas on their car and receiving death threats for their beliefs/lifestyle, where doest that leave folks with pride flags or feminist slogans or the like on their cars who get hostile attention for their beliefs/lifestyles and expressions thereof?
~ if they've been removed because cps decided being raised by folks with such "unpopular" beliefs is unhealthy for them, again where does that leave folks with "unpopular" beliefs on other parts of the political spectrum like atheists, anarchists, radical feminists, radical queers - the list could go on?
~ if they're kept from their parents and given to understand that the reason why is that their parents beliefs are "unacceptable", isn't there a good chance that later in life - and especially if they end up spending their formative years being shuttled from group home to foster home to group home - they'll be carrying enormous amounts of resentment toward the system that broke up their family and be likely to identify rather strongly with their wronged parents unacceptable beliefs?
i dunno. given that i believe objectivity is a fiction, i really struggle with line drawing like this. there are just flippin' oodles of things that scads of parents do or say to their kids every day that i think constitutes abuse/is damaging for the kids, but as punkmama also noted, i'm terrifyingly aware that there are scads of people who think that many of my parenting choices are damaging for my kid, so who decides? i dunno.
edited to add: all of which is also complicated by the fact that parts of my childhood experience clearly fell within some cps/dfs parameters for removal, but i'm certain i'd've been way more fucked up by removal than by coping with them with the rock of my ma as the stable center of my life throughout my formative years, and i'm sure that's true in a lot of families.
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
however, I don't believe that these kids were taken just because their parents are--whatever they are(neo-nazis?, Skinheads, white power people?). I am not trying to be hater toward other peoples beliefs, however it does follow in my mind that anyone who supports and idealizes a group that is seeped in such violence and hatred, must exhibit some of those traits in their own lives. I really, really hope that these children were taken so that they will be given a better chance, and be put in a safer, healthier home enviorment...not in a situation that will cause them more pain now or in the years to come.
Mummy's alright, Daddy's alright, they just seem a little weird...
Mummy's alright, Daddy's alright, they just seem a little weird...
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i wonder about who is working with the kids, of course, since that is what i do, and how they are feeling. will they ever be able to trust any systems?
At work, you think of the children you have left at home. At home, you think of the work you've left unfinished. Such a struggle is unleashed within yourself. Your heart is rent.
- Golda Meir