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Those little red KJV bibles...Submitted by enygma on Tue, 05/06/2008 - 8:43pm.
A while ago I replied to another mama's post about her annoyance with bible thumpers on her university campus. My opinion is that it's ok to have them there, and that it's the passer-by's choice to ignore or engage them in their proselytizing. But university campuses are filled with legal adults. What if it happened at your kid's school? Yes, public school. Yesterday there were three oldish men handing out those stupid little red bibles on the sidewalk next to the elementary school. They handed them to parents in the cars, and gave them to kids who broke from the "wait for your parents area" to run over and get a little red trophy. I was appalled and told them to keep their nasty old perverted akin-to-drug-pushing asses away from me and my kid. But, that's just me. What do you mamas think about this? They are subjected to passive agressive lifestyle judgements, their teachers baggage and hostility from the kids who picked it up from their parents- whats one more inappropraite belief system inflicted on them? Seriously, thats the last of my worries when forced to mingle with population not of my chosing. We all must stomach eachother. Somehow. PattyCakes, you had me thinking about this issue all night with your response. Thanks! I mean that in a good way! A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb Hmm ... if they were on the sidewalk, on public property, it does kind of bring up issues of freedom of speech and information. It definitely seems kind of smarmy and underhanded to hand out religious propaganda to small children, but at the same time, I think it is part of life to learn to sort out different information and ideas that you are exposed to. I wouldn't be upset. While yes, it probably is city property, that which is deemed "city property" is often deemed a school zone and therefore off-limits to vendors of any kind. For instance, ice cream vendors (those annoying little vans that hock nummies-on-a-stick) can't go any closer to one of the city's high schools than a nearby overpass (a little less than a quarter of a mile away). If they solicit their wares any closer than that during school hours they'll be fined severely. How is religion any different from ice cream in this instance? LOL! Smart ass. Soliciting ice cream involves money. Handing out bibles, does not. I believe that is how they get away with it. I personally don't care. When I lived in Chicago, there were always a ton of religious nuts pushing their beliefs onto passerby's. Something like this isn't going to harm my children. It may expose them to a culture I wouldn't (eh, the religious culture), and that doesn't scare me either. If my kids had to cross a street or leave an area they are suppose to be in to get the bible, and it is unsafe for them, then I'd complain. I wouldn't want anyone putting children in danger. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb Okay, I am really trying to imagine my kids at school... not easy to do... and I think I would be pissed off about the sliminess of these dudes and the inappropriateness of pushing bibles at a public school. If they approached my car I don't really know what I'd say, I guess it would depend on my mood. I can be pretty confrontational if given the right hormonal boost. I would probably call the school and complain, too. Wow! I should never answer a serious question before REALLY mulling it over! Thanks for this discussion. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb Yes, but do you believe in separation of church and state AND the separation of things-that-make-your-heiny-huge and already-mondo-obese kids? Preying on kids (and I'm talking 1st-3rd graders here) is sick, no matter what you're hocking. I'm sorry, I was just kidding. I definitely believe in separation of church and state, as well as putting a stop to the childhood obesity epidemic. But I do like nice old men handing out bibles and I reaaally like ice cream trucks. These old men were creepy and yucky, not nice little old dudes. Like Roman Grant on Big Love (which is funny considering we just had that big FLDS hoopla here). It would make me furious if that happened at The Wee's school. Seems totally inappropriate to be doing that kind of proselytizing (sp????) to young ones. Well, I guess they were also handing them to parents in the cars but I would have yelled at them if they tried to do that to ME! My question is-- do they have a right to be there? They were on the sidewalk, yes? Public property/free speech? I don't know ... Does it matter that it's in front of a school? I think maybe yes, but worry about slippery slopes (free speech "zones" and the like). Could cops be called if they weren't doing anything illegal? At the very least the church they represented should be called up/written to by a bunch of parents, chastising them for such a cheap trick. That is why we have churches and temples and mosques. So people can go worship there. That reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw: Don't pray in my school (or hand bibles out in my school) and I won't think in your church. I would have a real problem with that. The bible is violent and has a lot of material I don't think is appropriate to pass out to school children. If any non Christian religious text with that much killing and polygamy in it was handed out at a school, there would be serious problems with authorities and the parents, i am sure. Sunflower the unflower I have a few comments in response to this: 1) Little Reds are only the new testament, so I don't believe there's much polygamy. 2) I think in my church more than I thought at school, and I was pretty much a straight-A student. 3) I don't think those men should have been there. At all. I think the cops should have been called, or something. It's people like this who make me have to defend myself all of the time. I put it up because it is about people who try to force their religion in schools, but I should have said that I could see how it could be insulting to Christians, which I try not to be. However, I think it would be equally obnoxious for some sort of cynic to come to a church and distribute materials about atheism or evolution at a church, and I think that is what it is referring to. I didn't know it was only the New testament, which I think is a lot less violent than the old testament. I don't think crucifixion and wounds and whippings and the like are elementary school material, but at least there isn't as much war and killing in general. I am quite fond of almost everything involving Jesus's words and parables, but Paul's letters are used to justify a lot of sexism now. Sunflower the unflower Do you think the fact that they're just new testament is reflective on mainstream Christianity's desire to convert? Maybe the old testament is too violent and not "nice" enough to waylay potential converts. well said lady! my thoughts as well. "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." -Anne Lamott if I saw that outside my kids' elementary school - and I'm a Christian. This is another example of how a mainstream religion is trying to abuse the line between church and state. It would creep me out, and I can only begin to guess how a Jewish or Muslim parent would feel about their little kid coming home from school with a Bible. "Too weird to live. Too rare to die." - Hunter S. Thompson |
ahhhhh, whatever. They are subjected to passive agressive lifestyle judgements, their teachers baggage and hostility from the kids who picked it up from their parents- whats one more inappropraite belief system inflicted on them? Seriously, thats the last of my worries when forced to mingle with population not of my chosing. Pretty dumb target market though from the old timers. I guess I am not any more worried about them then some liberal's soul crushing big mouthed kid dashing the hopes of some kids that are comforted by the thought of some higher power by trying to argue that God is for idiots and hypocrites, and organized religion is dangerous, ect. Which arrogant atheists like to inform their children of seemingly after last push these days That stuffs bound to come up sooner or later. I just know my counter attcak for my kids is to constantly reinforce to each their own and when people are passionate about theit beliefs they think they are doing you a favor. So be nice, smile and nod, politly excuse yourself if you don't feel like listening and make up your owm mind. Hell, if my kid wanted to pass out pamphlets I'd let them. If they respect boundaries by not saying Mommys will go to hell for not taking you to church, then I will respect their intentions of handing me the key to a better life. I am a very tolerant person that believes of worlds within worlds and I have no right to say what is right or wrong seeing as diffrent rules apply to diffrent universes. We all must stomach eachother. Somehow.