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My thoughts on JunoSubmitted by PattyCakes on Wed, 04/23/2008 - 5:17pm.
Sorry, but with the rave reviews this movie got, I was expecting lots more. Yes, on an entertaining level, I was able to stay with the movie. It was alot more intresting than a Jackie Chan flick. But as far as being realistic, it may have been a Jackie Chan flick. So if you havn't seen it and don't want the "plot" ruined, stop reading now. This to me was about as likely a scenario as Napolean Dynamite. Did people "fall in love with Juno" because it brought out the Sunny D drinking side of all of us that are too concerned with the legitimacy of our shitty pop punk bands? Or was it the way that we secretly get a thrill when the uptight prissy yuppie is clueless underdog? Because the movie was missing some serious critical rights of passage and landmarks of a teenage pregnancy. First off, whos family is that supportive? Honestly? Wheres the rage that they express along with the guilt and lectures? Parents tend to not be that cool, and one backhanded comment about sacrificing pet ownership due to an allergy to dog saliva by a step mother to a knocked up sixteen year old that comes and goes as she pleases is just well, not how life goes. Junos stoic, levelheaded demeanor when dealing with the most unattractive dorkiest no personality father of the fetus: Excuse me, but didn't she describe him as her best friend, they were in a band together, she fucked him, shes carrying his baby and then they more or less ignore one another for nine months maybe with the exception of a lab? Yeah, okay.Dude was a total clueless dumbfuck who was seemingly unbothered or concerned or effected by this girl who has his child inside of her and is attending the same highschool with him,his friends, and teachers. what the fuck? And who is she- Cinderella? Me being that compassionate, mature and laid back in that predicament is about as likely as me cleaning a castle all day for three bitches, waiting on them hand and foot and whisteling tunes so sweet in the process that birds land on my shoulder. Add pregnancy hormones and the need to bond with anybody that may give a fuck about ya, and that part was so set in fairytale land, I can't even comprehend what made a writer think that was humanly possible. I am 31 years old and when I am having a bad day and am pregnant everybody around me best be having one too, or cowar like they are if they don't want to go out in the backyard and pick their own switches, pffffftlb. Paulys mom never found out Juno was pregnant. Bulleffingshit. I would've ended up telling her. Especialy if I was sixteen, who wouldn't? Gonna stare at me like i am some white trash teenage whore-lets just see how superior she feels when she finds out that child she raised is in the same predicament. Teenage pregnancy and depression go hand and hand. Ask anybody. Every single second isn't about self coincous wisecracking and smartass remarks. Especialy while attending the public highschool. They shone no light on the social stigma what so ever other than a few "why are they staring at me?" obligatory comments. The faculty would have pulled her aside along with her parents and heavily suggested she attend the charter school for bad girls, or adult ed. Thats what happens. Thats part of the process. Some choose to stay in public school, and ride out all all that negative attention. Most don't need the added stress. I am glad that Juno could keep up with her classes and have her mind focused enough to do so. she never second guessed the decision of adoption. Never wrestled with it. Never cried because she couldn't take care of her baby. Never showed any emotion at all during the pregnancy. Even this bothered me. She didn't show, then she was huge.who has a hundred bucks at sixteen to blow on tic tacs? who can drive their folks car as if it belonged to them? I was glad however that they made Jason Batemans character shady. I think people need to be aware that there are so many grown men that try and score with teenage girls and think that its exeptable in their sitaution. Theres definetly statory rape laws because we need them.If you don't already know this you were either sheltered or homely.Its a nasty dirty secret that I think gets way less attention than it should. I am glad that it was lightly touched apon. Juno's parents never tried to talk her out of adoption or had second thoughts. Thats kinda odd seeing as they were ancient themselves, could that lady even birthed a baby five years before that? Hile Hitler, by the way. I think his stint in OZ will always make me see a Nazi when I look at him. Anybody else can't imagine him being anything other than a white supremicist incarcerated douchebag? He *looks* like one. He'll always be Shillinger to me. That ending. WTF was that? theres the climatic breakdown when this hardass teenager just needs proof that "two people can love eachother forever." where did that come from? I know I wouldn't feel so compelled to hand over a baby to that chaos. And yet somebody that needy doesn't keep the baby? So she gets so needy and rejected and scared that she settles for her dorky ass boyfriend? Because if you havn't found your lifes mate at sixteen what does life have to offer after that? And they don't keep the baby. They may as well have gotten married, ran off into the sunset and rode horses on the beach with how cheesy that was, but they didn't keep the baby? Not that I don't believe in adoption, I think its great choice but it doesn't seem to flow with the "type" of person that ends up being so empty and needy, it seems like she would've ended up keeping it. So she needs to stay serious with somedbody at sixteen, but her babys adoptive mother can fly solo? And they all live happily ever after. Like I said, I liked it while I watched it. Not enough to ever watch it again, But I also loved Raising Arizona, but at least we all knew that was supposed to be exaggerated. 'For Keeps' from the 80's did a way better job with Molly Ringwald. If you were living in a cave then and didn't get out to see it or never rented it I would recommned that over Juno anyday. I know its just supposed to be a movie, but I am super sensitive to this topic. And I found the movie in the long run undigestable and a liitle offensive and far fetched. ."""For Keeps' from the 80's did a way better job with Molly Ringwald. If you were living in a cave then and didn't get out to see it or never rented it I would recommned that over Juno anyday."""" Nope, not in a cave, just avoided any film with Molly Ringwald in it. It made me laugh. It made me cry. I would have liked it if it had done just one of those things. That's pretty much what I am hoping for with a movie, so I was super pleased. "Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself"DT Suzuki a) how hipmama has turned in to a big 'ol complain-o-rama lately "If nothing else, life in the suburbs promised that you might go from day to day without finding shit in our hair." ~ David Sedaris and I chose abortion. I know at least one other mom on this thread who was a pregnant teenager and gave up her baby for adoption, and we both refuse to see the movie. Please don't say others shouldn't complain and then complain and be full of shit at the same time. Sunflower the unflower if you had read further in the thread..i tried to clarify my point. i hadn't realized about all the moms here that were birth moms, etc. i didn't know and i made assumptions i shouldn't have. you don't have to be so harsh. i wasn't full of shit, i misunderstood. I'm totally remembering now why i walk away from shit like this. and I see a lot of people who agree with me, but not much clarification by you, unless I missed it. And no apology. I think what you said initially was quite harsh, not what I said. It was sarcastic, overreaching, and accused hipmama of being full of complaining, then you went on to complain. You were obviously wrong (that is what full of shit means, and I thought you were OK with cursing but if you are not then I am sorry) about no other commenters on the thread being pregnant teens and having to face that decision. Sorry if you didn't like the use of the term "shit", but your comment was really hurtful and blatantly thoughtless, and the amount of reactions you got should make that pretty clear. This is a very sensitive issue. You aren't the only one with strong feelings on it. Sunflower the unflower First off, I liked Juno too. I laughed and cried. I left the theatre loving the damn thing. Does that mean that I can't look at it with a critical eye and point out problems with the message that this movie is sending whether it's intentional or not? As I said... no, Juno choosing to have her baby does not make the film pro-life- it is the way that her pseudo-consideration of abortion is addressed. If I was a pregnant teenager and saw this movie I would probably be scared, confused, and impressionable. And it would probably inspire me to have the baby and give it up for adoption- because Juno did and everything turned out great! Except the movie doesn't address potential emotional issues someone might have with having to give up their baby. It doesn't even go into the gorey details of pregnancy and what your body will go through. My concern is that the film implies with the abortion clinic scene that abortion is not a good idea- that it's sleezy and something that only a weakling or a heartless person who doesn't care that her fetus has fingernails (ha!) would do. If I was 16 and pregnant and planning to have an abortion because it was the right decision for me, I might not do it after seeing this movie. Not because it would be any less the best thing for me to do but because the way that abortion clinic scene is done makes it seem like something only a vapid, selfish, weak person would do. That's why Juno walks away- because she's better than that. No one can honestly say that when they were watching that scene they weren't rooting for Juno to run away from that place. I'm guilty of it too- and that's what scares me. realize that it's all subjective, don't you? i'll agree that the abortion clinic scene was the weakest moment in the film, but i didn't read it for one single second as implying abortions are sleezy, or that an abortion is something only a weakling or heartless or vapid or selfish person would do. not at all. i didn't interpret juno walking away because she thought she was better than those who chose abortion, either, or that adoption is a better choice, hands down. nor was i rooting for juno to walk away from the clinic at any point. i already knew she was going to walk away from the clinic before i even sat my butt in the seat because the film WASN'T ABOUT getting an abortion! i just saw the scene as rather poorly written transition so the story could move on to the 2nd act. i won't argue with you and try to convince you that your interpretation is less than valid, but i will disagree with you because my experience with this film was so hugely different than yours. your interpretation is your's, and mine is mine. and that's o-kay. Of course I know it's subjective but I'm trying to point out that I don't think that things in the movie- like the abortion scene- just happen to be the way the film was written. I think these are very calculated decisions to make sure that the film does not come off as endorsing abortion clinics. To, in fact, imply that the point of view the film is taking is that abortion is not the way to go-- whether it's actually how they feel or not. I totally can't remember, how far along is she when she goes to the abortion clinic? I never thought about the fingernail thing being true or untrue before, but I can't remember when she went, now I'm just curious. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness 12 weeks. And this is why I love hipmama, because I didn't even think much about how weird and how much the abortion and how social politics came to play or how abortion is too taboo to incorperate into a movie. I think the women in the abortion clinic polishing their nails, filing their nails was a deliberate abortion deterant by making a unsaid statement about only humans have fingernails, and if something has developed fingernails ( tru or not) its too late and amoral. But you also have to see some of the movie as a "Fargo" type. I don't know if you have ever been To Minneapolis and St Cloud, but a lot of the things in the movie were cultural for the area (at least to me).
there was a glaringly obvious anti abortion slant to the movie. anyone who says there isn't is just wrong. it beats you over the head.
we're not allowed to critique movies? Books? Art??? You better call the NY Times, LA Weekly, etc, etc.... I personally love hearing why someone hated something that was so mainstream loved. Anyone remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry made out during Schindler's List in the movvie theater? Not quite the same, but I love how Larry David took something so sensitive (the movie) and had Jerry blow it off. Um, Brainy, do you really think no one on here was a pregnant teen but yourself? BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness wow. its okay to be all confrontational but not complain? Nice! I was pregnant at fourteen . There are plenty of women on this site that were also pregnant around that same time. there are birth mothers on the site, their are adoptive mothers on this site. Its not a requirement to out ourselves if we don't feel like sharing it. Thats non of your buiness amd the only reason I divulged that was because I felt challeged and i don't think its appropriate for somebody to just come on here and demand to know that. Be nice. There are more constructive ways to make a point without being so hostile towards me or anybody else. I personaly like that women can come here and "complain" its healthy and better than keeping it all bottled up. assumptions which I shouldn't have...my point was that, without being in Juno's place then you can't KNOW how things SHOULD be.ya know? You can't KNOW that she wouldn't be allowed to attend high school or how her parents would react. That was my point. And no, catmama, I wasn't trying to say that criticism shouldn't be allowed, I'm all for criticism. I'm just n ot a fan of people KNOWING something they could never know...not that any of this matters...most of the few people on here who remember me probably don't like me much. I actually avoid this site a lot but wanted to see what someone had to say about Juno and found myself disappointed that it was just the same thing again...I wasn't trying to challenge each individual or asking who was a teen mom or a birth mom, etc. my point was, not having had these specific experiences we can't know how we or the people around us would have reacted. I, personally, thought it was hopeful (albeit idealic) and beautiful how her parents reacted. "If nothing else, life in the suburbs promised that you might go from day to day without finding shit in our hair." ~ David Sedaris Hey, Brainy. I remember you--and I don't dislike you! I can see myself making some of the same statements you did without intending to cause trouble. Having not seen the film, I don't feel I can comment too much about it's realism, but I do agree that people in different situations have to make their own choices, even if they don't seem realistic. Hell, most people didn't think I was being realistic when I said I planned to parent alone. not entirely down with busting the bubble of the woman who wrote it and is now very successful, but it really wasn't that good. certainly not nearly as good as it's made out to me. for all the reasons you say, and more. i still grit my teeth a little now, when i see all the DVD's for sale EVERYWHERE - - my drug store has them, the grocery store, the convenience store - EVERYWHERE. you know why? that retarded fucking scene where she and the skeevy guy are talking about music, the one where she mentions the stooges. that is one of my biggest pet peaves, poseurs are all over the stooges and the plasmatics. none of them, even if those bands were around today, would go to their shows, you know it. but tehre are three scenes that name drop and it got on my nerves like it gets on my nerves when some norm does it in conversation with me, because he googled something and wants to see if i listened to it. ok i got that off my chest, not what you were talking about. but i felt that Juno was a nice, mildly funny, comedy, along the lines of 40 year old virgin. it was cute and self-aware, but not quite enough to make up for being completely implausible. then there is the whole statement about the working class girl giving up her baby, even when teh family she was giving (him?) to fell apart, because it's the right thing to do. and the fact that it's so gushingly accepted so that the DVD's are EVERYWHERE, because it has her not abortiong. and yes, that is teh only reason it's this successful. if she'd aborted, there would be just as much of a story to write, but it would never have been released by a major studio, and even if it did get released, it would never have been a hit. true. can't deny it. right to life loves this. and if we are going to get political about it, i think it also sanitizes adoption. just give your baby up to someone richer, he will have a "better life" because you're "ill equipped." so yeah, right there with you. Yeah... I hate it when people say that this movie is not political. So many people have said things to me like, "Just because she didn't have an abortion doesn't make the film anti-abortion." or "You had a child under less than ideal circumstances- are you anti-abortion?" But they're missing the big picture because you're exactly right in that this film would not have gotten the wide release or acclaim it received had Juno chosen to abort. And it's not just that she made the choice to go through with the pregnancy- it's how little she grappled with the decision. It's how cold the abortion clinic is made to be and how lame the receptionist there is. It's the credence Juno gives to the thought that her baby has fingernails and that this misinformation is the basis for her change of heart (not to mention the fact that it's never clarified that the fingernail thing is, in fact, not only wrong but ridiculous). The message- whether intentional or not is that if you find yourself a pregnant teenager- if you're cool and have a heart- you will carry and give birth to the child but never consider keeping it yourself. Yeah, yeah... the stepmom rants to the ultrasound tech that Juno would be a great mom. Is that supposed to be the disclaimer that the movie's not saying anything against teenage mothers? Well then why is keeping the baby never even CONSIDERED? Why would a quirky outsider type like Juno want to give her baby to an uptight yuppie? Because everyone knows that people like that are the best parents and the ones who truly deserve to be raising children? because there is nothing wrong with being implausible. it's the way they went about it. the hairtrigger way she so eagerly accepted the word of a dumbass to change her mind about the abortion. i'd have liked it better if she never even considered abortion than to have lip service paid to it. it just irritated me on a few levels. it was generally good, and i do appreciate the whole backstory of dakota fanning's script and how it made it through production "virtually untouched" (i did read that somewhere, that it was not dissected by movie execs). but that almost makes it worse, it means she wrote it like that. like preemptively caving to zealots to prevent getting shit. eew. very well put. i love it. come to think of it, is there any movie besides Dirty Dancing that has an abortion as part of the script? And of course we all know thetype of girl that had that abortion and what happened to her. Ha, I wonder if you and I just did the same search, Sebsmom. I came up with pretty much the exact same movies. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness at least not in the U.S. Fame (digging back the the seventies, here). Saved had one in it, right? And what was that movie with Winona Ryder from the early 90's? I think her roommate has one. Sunflower the unflower Nah, Saved didn't have one (awesome movie, by the way). She had and kept the baby. I don't even think they mentioned one, if I remember correctly. And Girl Interrupted, I think that's the one you're thinking of with Winona Ryder. Don't remember the specifics, but it seems like someone there did. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness Reality Bites - I thought the Jeaneane Garafalo character had one, but maybe it's just an AIDS scare. It's been a decade. I forget. And I thought there was another member of Saved that is seen coming out of an abortion clinic, not the main character. Well, definitely Fame, I am sure of it. Sunflower the unflower not necessarily you personally, but maybe? i mean why the hell not?! that's what the writer of Juno did. she'd never written a screenplay before this one. she thought of a scene that was intriguing to her (pregnant teen meets potential adoption couple) and went from there. maybe it wasn't all you wanted it to be. but try doing it yourself. try writing a screenplay that not only portrays exactly what you think needs to be said about teen pregnancy, considering an abortion, open adoption, whatever, and see where you get. then make sure your protagonist works through the crucial plot points in such a way that no one will think it wasn't realistic/accurate/sensitive/plausable/whatever. then be sure to make it smart and funny and clever and all that. it's fucking hard as hell—and that's just the writing part! i understand the frustration with music,too. Hasn't pop culture had enough with the tortured artsy dorky alternative kid thing already? I mean, its pop. Its cliche, every damn last kid in suburbia everywhere since 91 has been 'alternative.' and its annoying as shit that todays preppy kids are fashionably listening to this stuff, or are reporting to listen to this stuff and all retro urchin 'underground' music fans. Thats the face of the new biff and buffy, only they don't appreciate it, realate to it, or probably even like it,its just trendy. I thought the book, Eat Love Pray blew chunks. That said, whenever mainstream Hollywood *awards* get all *indie* on me I hurl. (Geez....I hurl a lot?) Then again, maybe I'm just a jealous fuck becuase i sit on my ass talking about writing. I won't read it. I am so not inpired to read the plight of a white uppermiddle class yuppy's journey to wholeness through yoga, food and travel. Its always made my stomach turn. Especialy when she was interviewed. I am not saying that I don't feel for people with no real problems, I just don't feel that much for them. Kinda a hardass like that. But probably for the same reasons you hated it. I only watch documentaries to get a dose of reality.
i thought it was smart, and funny, and sweet, and sad, and odd, and and a really refreshing anecdote to the rest of the teen comedy crap usually churned out of the hollywood machine. i wasn't expecting it to be an "accurate" portrayal of teen pregnancy, or any pregnancy, or an exploration reproductive choice, or open adoption. had i ever been a pregnant teen, i might feel differently about this film. were i adopted or had i ever relinquished a child to adoption, i might feel differently about this film. i'll give you that. but really, it is what it is - a fictional comedy that currently sits on the same shelf as "Alvin & the Chipmunks" at my local vid store. and that about says it all. ('cept juno blows away alvin!) I found it utterly unrealistic, but loved it anyway. Seeing at the drive-in whilst drinking beer may have added to that feel-good feeling. I like the Juno character 9I remember trying to be like that in school) and in an artsy sort of way I like the film. I like how nonchalant she was, but that is not realistic when contemplating giving your baby up. Well, of course it's far fetched. It's a fictional movie. Personally, I don't watch movies because they are true to life or true representations of how I think life is. I watch them for entertainment value, to make me laugh or scare me or make me sad, whatever. Usually for mindless entertainment, not always, but usually. I also love documentaries and serious period pieces, really I just love movies. That being said, I can totally appreciate your gripes here. They are valid and make a lot of sense. For me, the tone and humor of the movie won out over the "realness" of it, ya know? The fact that, yeah, who's gonna fill someone's mailbox with a shit load of tic tacs just didn't bother me much I guess. Really, how many movies make complete sense 100% of the time? I don't think this movie was trying to be a true representation of teen pregnancy by any means. I just took it as a story of Juno herself, and she happened to find herself pregnant, and that's just what happened to her. Not "oh, don't worry 16 year old pregnant girls! See, you can be cool, smart, funny, and knocked up, and your parents will still love you no matter what!". Eh, whatever. I can see your anger with it, though. I just liked it myself. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness Then again I think this is more personal to women who have been teenage moms than those who haven't. For some of us it's just a movie for others it's probably yet another cultural misrepresentation of actual crap they went through that was not nearly so cute when it was happening.I probably might not enjoy a movie that's a light hearted romp about teenage car crash trauma even if it was dry and witty and contained a lot of cast members from Arrested Development. Anyway, I still liked this movie, but I related to it as someone who was a dry witted misfit teenager who didn't have a baby in hgh school. We did kind of actually talk and behave like that. My best friend and I were weird asses and would have totally filled a mailbox with tic tacs or tried to impress somebody older with retro punk mix tapes. But I doubt we'd have behaved quite so casually had any of us been actually pregnant. yeah, it had its moments, It was cute, witty even, but at the same time, its just so filled with yuch. To me, the mentality of it and the perspective spun to entertain the masses of people that aren't teen moms is like how black characters were in movies in the fifies. Its fun for white people. Lets all pretend that this stupid hayseed is happy singing bible hymns barefoot with his mammy who is just as jolly as can be, poverty stricken and yet so zen. Its cute and light if its not you, and you have never been faced with it. Like the abortion/fingernail scene. So now we are being sent a message that if a fetus has fingernails you are a murderer? This movie was target marketed towrds teens and I think they dropped the ball. I know it wasn't about instruction and documentation and I know it was just another something to stare at and go back to your nice cozy homes, but I still feel the need to vent. I gotcha, vent away! I really can appreciate where you're coming from. My sister got pregnant at 15, had another at 17. I was only 6 when she had the first one, so details are pretty blurry. But I know she sure as hell didn't walk around high school without much to worry about. She dropped out and got married to the asshole father. And though my parents didn't disown her or send her away, I don't think they were all accepting with open, loving arms. This was definitley nowhere near reality for her. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness I totally get what you are saying. Everyone was just too glib for me, nothing felt authentic and the lack of a real family dynamic left me feeling cold. I did enjoy the movie as far as entertainment purposes but it was not an 'Oscar' worthy film in any aspect imho. I don't think it plays into any political talk about abortion either. It was just a one note movie, the writer did not allow any of the plot lines go deep enough to allow room for any real reflection about the situation let alone to make a polical statement. "If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?" But, why did it have to make a political statement? I don't mean this in a combative tone at all, just genuine curiosity. BleuRoo Handcrafted Sweetness I guess what I was saying is that in the face of all the controversy that was created over her non-decision about abortion or adoption I don't think the movie was ambitious enough to even TRY and make a political statement. So I don't think the movie was pro-choice or non-choice (I hate typing pro-life, what does that really even mean?) and I wasn't disappointed because the movie really didn't do anything for me other than slightly entertain me while I cut fabric. It could not even hold my attention enough for me to not be having to do something else while watching it. Don't get me wrong - I love Napoleon Dynamite and I love mindless movies that are made just to entertain me this one just barely did that. Bateman was my favorite character, at least the most interesting. "If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?" |
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