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food and your kids - question...Submitted by peculiar old bird on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 10:47pm.
okay mamas, lay it on me. what would you do... if you and your dh were vegetarians, you are raising your children vegetarian, and you MIL and FIL just bought your ds a fishing poll? We don't eat fish. I am torn on this one. On one end, I grew up eating meat and chose to become a veggie as an adult. I know my kids will make their own choices as they grow up concerning food, and I don't want them to feel ashamed of those choices if they differ from dh and I. BUT... I am really pissed off that our choices for our children are constantly ignored and flat out disrespected by my in-laws. Is this just my battle and I need to chill out or should I have dh ask his folks about the fishing poll and tell them they are not allowed to take our children fishing. In a way, fishing is just like hunting and I would not even hesitate to forbid that. This is me trying to pick my battles with them. peculiar old bird's blog | login or register to post comments | email this page | printer friendly version
can't he fish without eating them? i fish and never eat what i catch.catch and release mama or catch and give to grandpa to eat. Jessica catch and release too. I hear what you are saying about the pain thing though. Your in-laws must know where you stand on all this....sounds like they are just butting in where they shouldn't and underminding you and (like someone else said) eventually, you´ll stop wanting to battle this and it will mean less time with grandma and grampa. it's sad...
well, he could. but, what i'd like to teach him is that fish feel pain, too. the very act of catching them hurts them. however, i'm leaning towards hal and i telling max how we feel about fishing and eating meat but letting him make the choice of whether he likes it all by him self. its not easy, of-course, because in my perfect world animals - even when eaten by people - would live a life being treated humanly right up until slaughter. or rather, only eaten when killed by the one who needs to eat it. but, i think these are the kinds of morals my children will need to come to on their own. not without knowing where hal and i stand, of course. but really figuring it out for themselves how they want to eat. i also am concerned with closing a communication door with my kids. i don't want them to feel shame if they have a diff POV than hal and i and shut us out as a result - or worse, hate themselves on some level. hal is still thinking about it. i'm curious as to what his idea on how to handle this will be. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb i'd step in, or i would let them make their own choices. when dd was little i would tell her that she should not fish because it hurts the fish and we have no reason to want to hurt the fish. he dad, though vegetarian, saw no problem with catch and release, which in my mind is SO much worse. you're maiming and harassing them for fun, you're not even eating them. at the age she is at now (9) she woudl be given the freedom to choose. i'd tell her what i think she should know about it and let her decide. but she's already against it. i don't think that moral choices like this should be left to a very young child. i view my role as a parent to be the one to teach right from wrong. kids should only be given choices when they can handle them, imo. if they are going to take anything you let them do as an endorsement, then you need to not let them do what you think is wrong. did that make sense? i think when my kid was about six she started to really question me, so at that time it became appropriate to allow her to make these choices for herself. before then, if i allowed something, it was a-ok, so i had to only allow shit i really felt was a-ok. in your situation, i would keep the fishing pole in teh garage and not let her fish, and tell her why. but it'll be there later, should she make another choice for herself, and she would know that i didn't impose my will on her, just guided her for as long as necessary. as to whether to talk to the in laws, dunno. if they were just trying to get a rise out of you, i woudl say no. but if it was a genuine oversight, you can mention it. but i'm leaning toward ignoring it.
all good points, etta. i told hal about it last night and he is thinking about it and will get back to me later. really good point about what is age appropriate for children in terms of allowing them to make their own moral choices. you have given me something to think about and talk to hal about. one thing i forgot to mention... my inlaws didn't actually give max the poll to bring home. they are keeping it at their house. it was max who told me about it, not them. so the confrontation may be necessary if they are planning to take him fishing behind our backs - yes, they have done stuff we explicitly told them "no" to in the past so i have no doubts they will do it again. there is also the issue of thwarting max's honesty to me. if he knows what my morals are, and no matter at what age - he disagrees with me, he may just start lying to me in order to avoid my reactions/responses. gawd, i hate these kinds of issues. they seem so big and so small at the same time. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb they're being sneaky and undermining you. you cannot let that slide. as to the fishing, after thinking about it i realized that it's a moral issue for me, but may not be for you. compare it to saying the pledge of allegiance in school, something vehemently disagree with. but i allowed my child to make her choice to say it, even at a very young age, because it was a personal choice, not a moral issue. but if i were to step back and say "make your own choice" about fishing, animals would die if she chose to do it, so it became a moral issue for me. i would sit on the boat with dh while he did it, but i would not do it myself. and one particularly gruesome mishap with a large fish scarred all three of us to where dh doesn't even do it anymore. because i sat there and said, "now what, throw him back?" and dd cried and dh got upset. but it's one of those things where you do have to step in and say this is how it's going to be, and you can choose otherwise when you are older. whereas for other people, different issues fall into that category. the pledge of allegiance, i feel almost as strongly about, but i don't think it's moral because it doesn't hurt anyone. but i really, really, really, really don't want her saying it and told her so. now, as to the fishing pole, i would totally tell your inlaws that if they undermine you in ANY way, even a way that seems small, and encourage your son to be less than honest with you, then you will need to curb his visits with them. it seems like such a strong stand to take in response to a fishing pole, but it really isn't about the fishing pole, it's about undermining your child's trust of you. i had to make a similar choice about my own sister and mother with respect to my child, because they lied to me about stuff that happened with my daughter. and in the case of my mother, she left my child with someone i told her not to and lied about it. they both felt like they did nothing wrong and i was being unreasonable, but that's not their choice to make. even if i am unreasonable, my child needs to trust me and be totally honest with me, and if i let her go with people who tell her it's alright to keep secrets from me, then she could start withholding very important information from me, like someone who hurts her, or someone who does dangerous stuff around her, or someone who brings shady people around. anything, really. being honest with your kid really trumps everything else, and imho anyone who would encourage a child to be dishonest with their parent can seriously endanger them. just because what they are lying about now is a fishing pole, once lying to a mother about her child is ok, then you have no way of knowing what is happening when your child is with them. so, imo it really is that important. besides, max needs to know that you aren't going to leave him with anyone you don't fully trust. that's how you earn your child's trust. by being trustworthy and looking out for him. and it makes me think about this article that I just read - not sure if I saw the link here or not: Check out my dinner blog: I read that article, too. Very carefully. I found out that the fishing pole was a toy. My alarm of it being real is that I've heard MIL saying to Max last year, "when you get bigger lola and grandpa will take you fishing," this has me up in arms. I think Hal will eventually have to lay it out there that we do not want Max going fishing with them until he is much, much, much older - like 6-7 years old. They have not, as far as I know, directly told Max to lie to his mommy and daddy. I don't think they would go that far as to do something and then tell my children to not tell me about it. That would be crossing a line and I do think they are smart enough to know that. Thank the stars. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb it was more like "mommy doesn't like this. we don't want to upset her." yeah, lay it out. it can't hurt. I would have a conversation with your son about fishing - tell him how it works, what it's about, why people do it and what the end result is. Then, you can ask him what he thinks about it. If he's into it, then I would let him try it for himself. You can tell him how you feel about it but let him know that he doesn't have to have the same opinions as you and that you respect his. If the idea of fishing does not appeal to him, then let your in-laws know how he feels about it... or better yet, let your ds tell them. Or, if he's not into it, you don't have to tell them a thing. You can thank them for the gift and donate it somewhere will people could use it. Or, return it. This is a good lesson for your son, but might not need to be one for your in-laws. Check out my daily photo journal: This is a good lesson for your son, but might not need to be one for your in-laws. damn. very good point. i've had those conversations with him and he still is into it. so, i might have to just let him be on this. the last thing i want is to take control of his own thought process on the subject of animals. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb |
and it's hard to keep my partner's parents in check. His mother
just doesn't listen to us and I'm afraid she'll cross the line
with the no meat thing.
When he was an infant there was
a absolutely no t.v. rule and when we would let them watch Ro,
we'd come back and he'd be watching t.v. When we said no sugar
she would try to feed him one of those fruit cups full of syrup
right in front of us.
As a consequence, she ends up being the last place on earth I
want to take Rowan and that sucks.
This is a hard one.
On the one hand they need to do their thing with the kiddos and
teach them what they know, but that has to be balanced somehow(I
don't know how) with the ultimate rule of us parents.
My whole family fishes and most hunt. And I am the only one with a
boy in my family. eek.
I think it's best to stay on top of them. Just letting them know
where your boundaries are set and all that shit. maybe.
And maybe your baby will go fishing and realize all the stuff you just
told him and it'll be something he'll never do again.
I'm glad you posted this. My son's only about 22 mos. and I'm gearin'
up for battles this summer when we go home. haha.
"Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is for
people who've been to
hell."--quoted by Ken Bruen (Irish crime novelist)