About Us & WelcomeHip Mama is a magazine bursting with political Interested in subscribing to the print zine? Click Here If you're new here, please take a moment to click around and check out the options.
|
enough.Submitted by mnemosyne on Thu, 02/07/2008 - 8:14pm.
I am having one of those times that I just want to walk away from it all. I've been depressed, I know this. It's the interminable grey winter, not enough sleep, not enough iron, not enough fun. We are at a serious financial stress out point; I just want to bury my head in the sand. I know it will pass. I'm taking steps to self-care, getting more yoga, getting more sleep, making more time to just read novels and play board games with ds. But your post, along with many of the other mama's posts are really ringing several hundred bells with me. I'm too exhausted to share much more than that, but you're not alone.
i read the part about having to nag, mother or bitch him into doing what he's supposed to do, and then you say you're too critical. i see a contradiction there. because if he doesn't pull his weight without you taking on the burden of supervising him, then i wonder how critical would be too critical. as to the advice, it's bullshit. sorry, but that sells men short, that they can't be relied upon, that they are unmotivated to do the shit they need to do and are only moved into action by avoiding the pain of hearing your voice. um, maybe. if they don't like you or aren't committed. your Mr is an adult. you can expect him to recognize what needs to be done and do it without supervision, intervention or motivation from you. and if he's not doing that, that's his failing. have you told him how you feel? like seriously? like, have you told him straight out that you are in all seriousness weighing the amount of work of single motherhood against the work of being his supervisor? so he really gets it, and doesn't dismiss it as lashing out? does he get that you are trying to decide whether he is worth the work?
What "advice" are you referring too, Etta? Because if it is the approach I take with my man, I'm not giving her "advice." I'm telling her what is going on in my life. I also think men shouldn't get any extra accolades for doing what they should be doing, changing diapers, helping around the house, cleaning, ect. Hal does all of these things, so that was never my issue with him. And I fully expect Hal to pull his weight around the house. I make this very clear to him and he does pull his weight. Or, maybe I'm taking your comment too personally and you weren't even thinking about what I wrote. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb that's what i was referring to, mnemosyne's general reference to advice she's gotten on the topic of marriage. i didn't read anyone else's response on this thread. sweet. i thought i was being overly sensitive and knew i could just ask you. i started my lovely period today which always makes me overly sensitive. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb so yesterday i was all weepy, which made me ripe for art-looking, when i saw the work of esao andrews. http://jonathanlevinegallery.com/?method=Exhibit.ExhibitArt&ExhibitID=8E... "Well Raven, you sure do like to bushwhack don't you". And that's my long lost secret to a lasting marriage. Keep whacking away. I didn't grow up with any men either, so I expect dh to be as fully capable (physically, emotionally etc) as all of the women in my family. And I never expect or tolerate less. Did I mention that bushwhacking is not too different from driving a team of stubborn mules? Uphill. Its not glamorous. But I think I'm in better shape than when I started. [Feel free to add this advice to the Hipmama guide on "how to be a good wife".] Girrrrl, my man had been on my last nerve for this past month - so I feel your struggles. for me, (and anyone in a healthy relationship can do this - yes, “healthy” does include "I think my man is an ass-shat right now.") anyway, for me, it helps to stop the picking apart of Hal’s personality and start looking at what my needs are OUTSIDE of my relationship with Hal. it always turns out that some fundamental need i have is not being met and I’m expecting Hal to fulfill this need that he is in no way capable of filling. For example, I have been feeling really disconnected from Hal since the beginning of this year. When I really thought about it, it wasn’t that I was really disconnected from him because there is nothing between us, but that I am in dire need of some ME TIME. I am actually really disconnected from myself right now. I have not been alone, enough. A five minute shower is not doing the trick. It took a couple of talking/releasing/arguing sessions with Hal for me to figure this out. And of-course, he is like, “just say the word, anytime you need to get out of the house, alone, just let me know.” What was I so angry about? Well, I really felt like he should have been taking care of me, my needs, and suggesting that I get out of the house and grab a cup of coffee at the bookstore. I am so busy taking care of my children that I feel like someone should take care of me. Duh, as an adult, we know how to use our words. Other adults don’t know what our needs are THAT DAY unless we actually have said something about them. So that was one side of my dilemma. The other part is that I am not getting enough one on one time with Hal. I’m currently working on pulling my friends in to babysit for us. Just a few hours every other week would really help us to reconnect mentally and emotionally. We haven’t had ANY time alone since Bella was born over a year ago. That’s my story. I hope that you and your man are able to work things out if that is what you really want. Having children is a true test of our ability to deal with our partner and meet our own needs at the same time. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb you made me kinda tear up there. What I'm missing is fun. Hanging out with girlfriends long enough for a great conversation. Rocking out, writing poetry, sitting up by myself late at night and doing nothing. I miss it! And yeah, I'm resenting him and blaming him for that. I get this undercurrent of guilt, whether that's me or him or both I don't know, if I try to make plans to go out without him, and that pisses me off. I'll think this over and how I could communicate more effectively for him. reading your post and the subsequent responses, and looking at my own life, I am seeing a lot of similarities here...we are a whole lot of whip-smart, tough women who have had to take care of ourselves and then some; most of us, in some way or another have had to and/or are in the process of blazing their own trails through this world...perhaps the things that draw us to these men (their sensitivity, their sense of fun, exactly their lack of responsibility) are the things that also make the relationships difficult. You're right, you don't deserve this, not one bit. It's frustrating that someone would feel that it's ok to walk all over you in this way (whether they realize it or not, this is what is happening. We are dealing with some very similar issues -- just found weekly child care so that we can get into (long-needed) counseling. I use the word "referee" to describe what I am looking for in counseling, whatever it is, we need something. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, but if counseling doesn't work...??? My thoughts are with you, Mnemo... I think you're on to something--yes, it's that non-conformist, non-confrontational spirit that attracts me and then so completely pisses me off. Where are the role models for any of us? Maybe we should start a 'how to be a good wife' thread. I can see it now and it's cracking me up and scaring me. I would suggest trying non violent communication, I agree, the lack of tribe is so detrimental. I've done some nvc classes and have to admit I'm pretty far off that with my communication right now. I own that, thanks for the reminder. I'm not sure if this site was meant for married men, but, let me start off by saying that I am not the typical husband. I'm more like a 'Mr. Mom-sband-ther' (read my bio for further info I can relate to everything that you are saying. There have been times when I just wanted to walk away from it all as well, but I had 2 reasons why I couldn't do it: both of my children. Communication is key. I wasn't very good at it, but i'm trying as well. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. But, at least you'll get the satisfaction of knowing that you did bring your concerns to the table. And you are dead on about adapting: we can't change who they are, but instead we have to change ourselves to accept them as they are. You just hope somewhere down the road that the same line of thought is reciprocated in your spouse. Also, i'm not sure what your religious preference is, but, I can tell you that God is good. I lean on Him for a lot of things, with my marriage being a 'biggie', I hope that it gets better for you. Brock RokWell 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren...' Romans 8:29 To clarify, no this site is not intended for married men, or men at all, thus the hip Mama designation. We've had men on here before and they tend not to last long, as some of our members tend to resent it/feel intruded on, etc. We are a public site and don't exclude anyone, but you may find a more appropriate cohort at a site aimed for men, like rad dad. To clarify further, this is what it says in our "about us": The zine started as a forum for young mothers, single parents, and marginalized voices, but has grown to represent progressive families of all varieties. Hip Mama maintains the editorial vision that qualified it for the title "conservative America's worst nightmare." "Progressive families" doesn't really eliminate men, married or otherwise, from the equation, but it's true they tend not to hang out here for long. We were having this discussion at work this week actually, about how fathers tend not to really get to talk parenting with other fathers/parents -- they end up going out for a beer & talking about work, sports, whatever. There is no equivalent community really for fathers. Rad Dad is indeed awesome, but it's also an individual's blog -- not a community site like hipmama. Dadcentric is also amusing, and at least it's a group blog with comments that are somewhat used but again not so much a forum-forum with as much interaction as happens here or many other mothering sites. Yeah, I know we call these blogs -- they're using the blog module, but really it's more of an anarchic forum set up that doesn't track by topic but by chronology... If anyone happens to know of any progressive parenting forums for fathers, I'd really appreciate knowing about them for further referral as I know a number of men that would be very interested in participating in something like that. "Do not forget. Remember and warn." dh and I had a conversation this morning about how we find community on the internet -- he seems to want a more "activity" oriented connection -- like his video game (which I despise, by the way, but I do see that he has some community there) and some dads' groups in our area who post outings on the net and go to the outings (things like hikes, days at a park, whatnot). Perhaps, Susan, there are certain conditioning patterns in our culture for men, or a large group of men are "wired" in such a way that forums such as ours aren't as interesting to/helpful for them. I am on a few other male-dominated message boards and I find the format, or the means of communication to be much different -- a lot of specific stuff: here is my question, here is your answer. just an observation... Yep. Not really disagreeing with any of that. Just noting that there is a fraction of men who seem attracted to the sort of community provided here (we get someones who dares to try & join & post every six months or so, and someones who registers every two to three weeks, it came up independently of me last week at work -- most people have no idea that I run this & another mama site so wouldn't be led to say something just because they think I might want to hear it... and I didn't enlighten them on my status). At one point many years ago, we actually had two fathers who were fairly regular posters here for a year or two with varying degrees of success. I also participate on other sites with mixed gender, as well as admin here, I find it helpful in keeping perspective on things. As we, you & I, find the other boards' formats & means of communication different (and sometimes not particularly welcoming), I'm sure they find it different here, but it doesn't necessarily make it any less valuable for them to have access to a site somewhat like this also for reasons of perspective. Again, not necessarily saying this is the right site since the women here tend to chase men off in short order -- no judgment, just observation over the course of participating in varying degrees on hipmama in the last nine or so years. My primary question was really -- where do men, that fraction of men who are wired differently or who have broken out of their socialization or whatever -- who have the interest, have online to talk to other Dads specifically about parenting? And it may be that there are none. Which is as it is, if the shoes available don't fit buy/diy bespoke shoes! "Do not forget. Remember and warn." Hi Tunderhelia! I work from home for an IT company. My day usually starts at 5:30 a.m. and doesn't end until I crash at or around 10:00 p.m., lol. I've been able to develop a schedule that the kids have gotten used over the past 4 1/2 years, and it works. They clock watch like I do, lol. Being able to work from home allows me to start dinner a little bit early, and in most cases, we are eating at 6:30 or 6:45, unless we go out. They are in the bed by 8:00 (for my daughter), and 8:30 (for my son). I wake them up between 6:05 and 6:10 and they are eating breakfast by 6:30, and we are out the door by 6:55. I volunteer on Tuesdays in my daughters class, and when needed in my son's class. I also try to eat lunch with them at least once per week. But, it's really only by the grace of God that I can do what I do. I pray a lot asking God to show me how to be the father that He wants me to be, as well as the husband that my wife wants me to be. I pray a lot for my wife to, and it's amazing how He responds. So in a nutshell, I do it all because of Him. TTYL! Brock RokWell 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren...' Romans 8:29 lots of different backgrounds, lots of different beliefs. I was just reading a section of Obama's book where he discusses faith/religion in politics and the public sector. I think he drew a nice distinction in acknowledging that morals--ways of being that translate universally across faiths and nonfaith are legitimate points that we shouldn't have to evade and can deepen meaningful connection and change, but oftentimes more specific belief spouting comes across as restrictive and condemning. Mama, you read my mind. I was about to say the same thing. Everyone here respects the right to worship, but this is not really the place for it. Have either of you ever picked up the Hip Mama zine? Pick it up, please, to understand a bit more about this site. I am not trying to be rude or exclude anyone; I have my own faith, but this is not the place, much like our school system, to put it out there. Just saying. I've read all the hipmama books and picked up the magazine. I know this is not a Christian website but i thought this was an open and just commenting : schools systems are putting it out there in vary different ways that I do not like tunderhelia, you are welcome here. please don't think otherwise. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb there are plenty of sites that focus on Christian parenting. No one says it is not hip to choose your OWN religion, it is just not the focus of this site. Many people come here as a refuge from people telling us to just give it to God, or to just believe that a paternal male God is good. If you are upset with a site with members that do not mention God and with the atheist public school system, maybe a Christian homeschooling site would be more appropriate. Complaining about the lack of those views on here is not being part of the community, it is asserting your majority religion on a non mainstream site. And Brock, what does it mean on your profile that you want to save people, one at a time? Save us from what? Sunflower the unflower Hey, you're not alone. I think some mamas around here have a hard time honestly being open to any mention of religion. And those who do consider themselves religious still bristle at some of the ideas and language used by others (Brock, I LOVE that you're here...at least I think I do...but referring to God with male pronouns makes me bristle. Just an example I'm throwing out there. I'm Christian, but non-traditional in pretty much every way.) So parents who self-define as Christian end up being kinda closeted, here, because there are some vitriolic athiests who turn any mention of God into a huge argument (thus, high jacking threads, as we're basically doing to Mnemosyne's right now.) Mnemosyne: ooof. I have no advice, here. This is why I'm single--I expect a partner, not a dependent. I hope that you and DH can establish standards that work for both parties and live up to them. right on, sister. A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb although of late things have been better. I do kind of think it is a man/woman thing, although part of me thinks that it a cop out and that that perspective is inherantly sexist. I don't know the answer but I CAN relate to the "don't give a man more than one thing to do at a time" b/c in my experience it's true! My DH can't remember anything and even though he knows this he doesn't compensate for it, he still doesn't make lists of things he needs to remember. THAT drives me crazy! Yes, I end up bitching and nagging and stuff STILL doesn't get done. And yes, my man also tells me he's "getting better" but honestly the incriments of improvement must be so microscopic over the years that I haven't noticed them much!!! I think he still kind of sucks at things like picking up after himself, helping out keeping the house clean, and doing general stuff without me directly identifying and asking for it. And yes, it makes me extremely tired. I was organized and my house was clean until I met and moved in with my DH. Now it's a distant fantasy that someday I hope to realize again. If you are committed to working on it I recommend couples counseling, especially if you're at the throwing things stage. Go talk to someone. If you're both not totally committed to each other and making it work, then bag it and move on. Good luck to you and just know that there are other mamas in this boat with you!! Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. we are both committed--I'm just wondering at what point that becomes self detrimental. You think the throwing things stage is an indicator of needing help? my ex, same thing. no initiative, no follow through when he would say he'd do something i needed him to do, nagging him to make ONE phone call to the bank or his HR department about insurance or something like that(like it was such a big ordeal to make a 5 minute phone call...), etc etc. i needed his help so much, and ended up doing it all on my own and it caused resentment on my part. and he felt emasculated. i did not know the extent of it however. the resentment ended in his having an affair. but i would ask for his help, tell him my frustration, then end up doing the stuff on my own because otherwise it wouldn't get done, and this would divide us. ended in poor communication and thus the falling apart of "us". i would have expectations, he would let me down. if you do want to work it out i'd say open up the lines of communication in a non-blaming way. that is very hard to do and i never was good at it. but that way leads to better results if he is willing to listen. and you have to hear him out too (even if it is a crummy defense). i now can see that i couldn't have kept up my endurance. being the only active participant in the responsibility portion of our lives. i was living like a single person as it was. all he did was work and come home. i worked, came home, did everything else involving keeping a house, managing finances, stocking the fridge. i talk to a lot of women who this is the case for them and acceptable but my friends whose husbands share responsibilities seem happier. me and my ex split when the baby was two weeks old so i can only imagine how bad it would have been with a child in the picture. i think he would have been a good playmate for our child, but not a proper father who really was dependable. i need someone who is accountable. i deserve that. best of luck to you. sending you love and strength to move forward and do what is best for you, whatever that may be! "Live so that when your children think of In a lot of ways, he's really good. He puts up with a lot of my wierdnesses pretty well. He is more than an equal partner in parenting. But pretty much everything you describe here rings the bell. I know that after I left my first husband things were harder in a lot of ways, but I was still ultimately glad. but I was lonely, wanted a relationship, wanted a father for my kid(s). So we move on. What I'm stuck with is that I don't really know how to turn the relationship around. The leaning on god paradigm isn't fulfilling to me for making these shifts. Anyways, thanks for sharing; are things going better now? he is equal in parenting and putting up with your "weirdnesses". "Live so that when your children think of This winter DH has had several 2 day funks where he completely detaches himself from the entire family for some unknown reason or because of a fight we've had. He's here physically but contributing nothing --- nothing towards me or the kids or the house or .....Sigh. And then--surprise, he's back and contributing in a slightly guilty way. Since I'm in my own mid winter slump I just don't have the reserves to confront him with his behavior as it will probably precipitate another fight and more days of me taking full care of our bewildered kids while he hides/detaches and sulks.... I'm drowning and monkeys dressed as lifeguards are throwing me anvils That is funny and so so true of life sometimes! ***the United States is one of only four out of 168 countries studied to not have some form of paid family leave for new moms. We join Swaziland, Papua New Guinea, and Lesotho in not having that policy in place. *** |
.) I'd be honored if it would be ok for me to post on this site. 
i feel bad about this - i'm sorry for the late reply.
you know my story, where i've been, what i've done.
i can only say this:
you're a good woman, you work hard for your family. i don't think that you're being overly critical, your needs are important.
i support you no matter what you decide to do. i love you.
hearts,
dc
goddess informant