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can you remove an infant from it's car seat?Submitted by Henry on Wed, 01/23/2008 - 4:53pm.
I was in the city yesterday with family and everywhere I went I saw infants in their car seats. In cars, sure, but also everywhere else. I walked into a cafe (my 3 year old was in the car with my aunt and uncle) and the woman in line ahead of me had an infant in baby car seat at her feet. She pushed it along as the line moved, got her coffee and left all without looking at the baby (she was awake and very cute). The other women in the cafe all had infants in car seats at their feet or on a bench next to them. In all cases the mother were drinking their coffee and reading or chatting and occasionally looking over at the infants. The infants I could see were all awake. Most were alert and peaceful (my favorite time to hold or interact with babies) and some played with the toys dangling from the infant car seat handle thingy. No one touched them or talked to them. mine was in her seat alot. I had no job and honestly could not afford to buy a sling, i mean people were donating diapers to me, so i guess if you saw me on th bus you would have judged me as well. I guess also because I have a bouncy seat(which was gifted to me) I put her in when I wash dishes. It is often easier to carry them in the seat instead of carrying her, a wiggly wormy little one when i am lugging a stroller a 3 year old and enough bags for all of their stuff as I ride the bus to the grocery store and carry my bags home.my baby is never in the car seat at home, she is usually in my lap or directly in front of me crawling on the floor.and percentage wise she is at home 95% of her little life so far. so the few minutes that you see the babes out in the seat is probably realisticly a very short amount of time.So even if the babes are in seats when they are out how long are they actually in the seat? I'm sure the moms are touching and holding them plenty at home. if the babies are happy and healthy i just don't have a beef with it.but to each her own.I mean would you guess if you saw me out with my kid ina seat I also co-sleep lots of touching and bonding there for 7 straight hours a night. I see all sides of it. i get hell for the co-sleeping from plenty of people.I think it was a weird day and you just happen to be noticing it that day. i don't really think it means mom's are not holding their babies for the majority of the time. Jessica Hey denessasma- good to see you popping up every now and then! How are you and Carl and the girls? All well I hope! had my baby in a baby-sling. That was wonderful. I had my hands free and my baby near, could talk to her, touch her, and she could fell asleep without worries. She was in her car-seat when we used the car and when we were eating she lay in it making company (which she always wanted). It is absolutely no good for those little backs if they are always in the same position. And i cannot imagine not to talk to my daughter. Even now in a stroller I am looking at her and talking to her. That is so important I think. That's how she learns to interact with other people. I remember feeling that way when I went to my first postnatal yoga class. i showed up with my baby all strapped to me groovily, and there were these women all with their babies aside in these plastic domes. I thought it was strange and a little sad, bc I had separation anxiety from my baby and she seemed so far away if she wasn't connected to me physically. Plus they look uncomfortable to carry. I know what you mean, I can feel from that perspective too. But to each mama her own, right?
To each their own. It's easy to get miffed that others don't do it like you. We attach alot of emotion to these things when we see them because we think they way we are doing it is the best thing. Well, it may be for you but not for everyone else. They love their babies as much as we love ours. We can't think anything less than that. Yeah I was going to add it's like some people are touchy feely and some are not. everyone has a different preference. Jessica E spent some time in the carseat because I was actually afraid I would break her. But I have bad shoulders and couldn't carry it well so we were forced to resort to a sling. Oh the horrors! That must have been the slippery slope that led to my downfall into (gasp) Attachment Parenting. Sorry, but I couldn't resist being silly. I saw a talk show about AP when I was pregnant with my first and thought how awful it was that those parents couldn't respect their babies' space and then a year later my own demanded it and I was forced to comply so I can sympathize with insecurities on both sides. Such a harness, I mean. I saw it once in town and thought "That's great." It is known from earlier times but has been forgotten, it seems. It seems that those things were in use in the 50s and 60s (having old books on childraising). Oh, Henry, I miss you! This is so true. Out here, this time of year, it's because it's easier to bundle the car seat than it is to bundle the baby, but it's still very odd. I'd carry DD (8 months!) in the car seat if she was asleep because it was easier to let her take a nap there--she still won't sleep in anything other than our bed or on me. But the rest of the time, she's in the sling. People here think it's such a "nifty" contraption. One woman actually said to me, "they didn't have those when I had my kids." Umm, yeah, they did. And by "they," I mean women in the developing world who don't have cars to put car seats in and don't have sidewalks to walk strollers on. I feel sorry for the babies. They need to be touched and held. I miss you too. I can't believe your little girly is already 8 mos old! That is so old. Kiss her for me. I have a carseat. I have a sling my mom made me. I have a front carrier I made myself. I have a Hip Hammock. I use all, frequently. If you saw me on a certain day, you might see me with my babe in his carseat while I eat dinner or shop for groceries. And you would judge me like you did them. What you didn't see was all the time that I use my carriers as well. I've walked around St. Augustine for hours with him in his sling. I've grocery shopped countless times with him in his carseat. I've carried him in my arms while shopping.
*KangaBleu Earrings* ~Beauty is simple~ I used the car seat a lot with my first son-- because it was convenient, because I thought that I should be using it, because he was cranky in the evenings and swinging him in the seat seemed to calm him in a way that holding him and nursing him didn't and because, because...you know, I don't really know why. I was given the thing at a shower and I felt like I should just use the shit out of it.... I remember using mine when DS was sleeping and at restaurants, also attached to his stroller. They are not easy to lug around so I wouldn't say it was that convenient, I just did not want to disturb him while he slept. I don't remember keeping him in it for extended times and not holding him. I also used a bouncy seat at home and he loved hanging out in it but if you think about it, it is the same idea just a different contraption. I do think that the car seat can be over used, I would just realize that these moms are out and about and try not to imagine that their babies are never held. I don't think you are being overly harsh, but you definitely put me on the defensive when I first read the post. But I know that I did nothing wrong and my boy was loved just as much as the next kid if not more;) I also doubt I would use the car seat as carrier as much with the next one, having more experience as a mom can change how you do things. and you cannot believe how many people tried to make me feel bad for holding him when he was a wee baby. "Why can't you put him down?" He also hated the sling and the baby bjorn. So I held him. He was a preemie, so he was easy to carry until he started crawling. Then he was off like a shot. I have to admit, after that when ds2 came along and loved being in the carrier, I let him hang out there. Doesn't mean I don't like to hold him. I do all the time. I don't leave him in there if he doesn't want to be in there. I tend to think that he's happy chilling out in there, and who am I to mess with that?? : ) I get that it can be easier some of the time, I get that it works better for some people - what I am talking about that may have not been clear is the kind of culture or system where the norm becomes to not hold your child. And I notice it more probably because that isn't how it is where I live. I am not bashing an individual for not holding their baby a certain time on one day, I a saying I find it creepy when I see no one holding their baby all day, when know babies that I have never seen outside of their car seats even though I see them a lot (and once again it isn't about this certain baby, it's the trend of knowing lots of babies that I never see out of the car seat). I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion about the intended tone of your post. I get what you are saying about the culture and way children are handled and to an extent I agree. There are alot of parenting styles and ideas out there I just don't get. I think what hit me wrong had more to do with something I'm worked up about at the moment that has nothing to do you or the subject you wrote about so for that I whole heartedly apologize. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. Because I thought what you meant was to speak on how this, the carseat carrier, had become the default. And when I first had Sebastian, I thought it *was* the default, it was how babies were carried. I thought my mom was being a cow when she chided me for buying the "travel system" - "Oh, but it is so easy, it is so convenient, it is so wonderful!!" I told her, my eyes full of stars. It was conversations and debates like this that showed me there were other ways - not just to carry a baby, but to feed a baby, to diaper a baby and to live. Conversations like this one and so many of the other touchy topics that I've witnessed here and on other boards have helped me grow into my role as mom. Let's not stop to avoid hurt feelings - there are enough boards out there where I feel like everyone treads lightly and is all lovey and "judgement-free" (which to me means I'm afraid to state my actual opinion on everything from Hell-Mart to politics for fear of offending and getting booted or black-balled), this shouldn't be another one. Leave the personal attacks out of it, though. I think we all need to remember that each voice here is a person, a woman, a mother and is valuable (this is not specifically aimed at you, Henry), let's show some respect. have one view before they get pregnant; and then when they are actually parenting start doing it an entirely different way. For example: I thought there was no question about it, I would formula feed, disposable diaper, put him in daycare, let him watch tv whenever, buy tang and koolaid and chips and candy, and hey, why doesn't anyone ever use popsicles with a teething baby? It's not like the babyteeth are that important, they are going to fall out in a few years anyhow. I wish I was kidding. Really. Of that list; the only thing I did was use disposables; after trying cloth and he was in daycare for part of his toddlerhood. It's discussions with other moms that helped me learn to be the mother I am. When I was a young, single mama with NO mama friends, with my non-mama friends asking me all the time to just give him a candy, or taking his vegetarian ass to mcdonalds... it was places like this that kept me sane and discussions like this one that helped me to see the other options out there. Henry, I think a lot of us mis-read your tone here. Thanks for clearing it up! I came to motherhood with the same ideas and slowly worked my way towards more mindful parenting through this site. Not that I have something against formula feeding or car seats per se, but we aren't blank slates when we become mothers. We are fed a lot of ideas all along that contrive to make parenting somewhat more costly and consumerist. It exacts a toll on the environment when we buy buggies and cars and carseats and disposable diapers and formula. Most people wound themselves financially to afford this stuff and the earth is worsened and everybody thinks it's a need and in many cases it is because of our society and I think it's great that on this site we look at that. I used to formula feed and disposable diaper and I don't judge myself or anybody else harshly for doing it. That was fine then but now that I've been here and learned more it's nice to evolve my parenting to fit my values to feel stronger in myself and it's too bad that society is discouraging rather than encouraging these changes. ***the United States is one of only four out of 168 countries studied to not have some form of paid family leave for new moms. We join Swaziland, Papua New Guinea, and Lesotho in not having that policy in place. *** Nicely put. And need I point out that there are children that are getting beaten and starved everyday by their parents? If a mother chooses to carry her baby around in a car seat and loves her baby and doesn't harm her baby, that is alllllright by me. and thank you for distinguishing between the culture and the specific mothers, because that didn't come across to me in teh original post. although, you've been here long enough that i didn't expect that you meant what you said in a sanctimonious way at all. Let's not turn this into a 'let's all bash Henry' sort of thing. Nobody likes that. and maybe that is why you didn't fit in so well at MDC? No, it is everyone else's fault right? You are just as judgemental as the next woman refering to online mama's as "smug bitches sitting around smelling their own farts".
I think it's all about what works best for mom and baby. As an exhausted single mama, I can see how the carrier would be helpful in certain situations. (a little hand and lap free hot coffee time being one of them!) Unfortunately, J hates his car seat and wails whenever he is strapped into it. So, sling it is. But truly, whatever sparkles for you, sisters. We're all in this together.
this is exactly the kind of crap that i hate about mothering dot commune and other mom boards...why on earth do you feel the need to judge other mamas and their choices? there are upsides and downsides to the extreme AP style you are talking about, and i would rather hear about why YOU love to hold your baby 24/7 rather than read a smear post insinuating that mamas who you see putting their children down don't love their babies. i mean, what is your point with this post? that you think you are a better mother than one who puts her baby in a car seat or a stroller instead of carrying them? well good for you. you sound like a judgmental and insecure person in this post to me. i am sure many mamas will commiserate and congratulate you but not me. and it has nothing to do with whether or not i agree with you, by the way. i just DO NOT see the point of these generalizing, judgmental, holier than thou posts. i really don't. other than ego masturbation. can't you just talk about yourself without putting other people down? i am sure that would be much more interesting to read. at least for me. I just re-read Henry's post again, and I still don't see it. Perhaps it is because I've been here a while and "judgmental and insecure" are not adjectives I would associate with Henry, but more likely it is because I read the post as a list of observations with commentary. Sure she is of the opinion that the choice she made was the better one - if she didn't I would really wonder why she'd done it. Now I will say that I think each and every one of us questions bits of other's parenting - it is how we develop our own ideas and patterns. And to question why something so unnatural has become the norm seems perfectly valid to me. You should know that you have stumbled into a group of highly opinionated women. Debate is a big part of why I love this place, not snarky personal attacks, mind you - but honest debate. So if you can't handle someone stating an honest opinion that differs from yours, you should likely move on. Everyone who uses the carseat/carrier has an individual reason. I used it with my son, though not as profusely as what she described. I totally get her intention to point out the cultural differences between a time when babies were carried on mommies backs out in the field and our modern need to be un-attached physically, to keep your sense of self. She didn't say it was wrong, she said it was weird. Relax, my friends! If you don't like the post, as idyllia said, move on. Why is everyone being so defensive here? Henry wasn't being judgmental, yet you fear her judgement. Sounds like there is a chance for personal growth in here somewhere... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i can handle a different opinion, but i guess responding to it is off limits? ok maybe i should move on. but when you call someone out so rudely, you should expect to hear about it. If you're cool with that, I'm cool with you. I carried Ike around in his seat too much. I wish I had kept him closer. I never let him be in his seat at home. I just read too much about spinal alignment. Furthermore Isaac was much too active of a baby to allow carseat overuse. If we weren't in the car or constantly moving he wanted OUT!
Have you ever considered the simplicity of keeping your infants from grabbing a cup of hot coffee and dumping it on themselves at a restaurant? Or that its not always safe when shopping to try to juggle a squirming infant and an armload of groceries or shopping bags? Or in my case that my son liked to entertain himself when out and about and I was a young overwhelmed single mom with no help and no friends in a new city and sometimes the carrier allowed me 5 minutes to take a breath and not meltdown and the implication that I didn't love my son as much is a little insulting. My son also crawled and walked very early and it wasn't always safe for me to do simple things like shower, laundry, cook because he was into everything and occasionally the carrier was a lifesaver because he would sit in it calmly while I did what needed to be done. There are a multitude of reasons people use carriers and I'm sure there are even the ones who do it for the wrong reasons but the five minutes you see someone in a store or restaurant does not give you the inside track into their lives and into how they feel about their children. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. you're most likely not seeing these women 'all the time', more likely you're seeing a lot of women for a brief moment in time and they happen to be doing a lot of the same thing, something that doesn't quite fit with your mama grove. that's okay if the car seat/carrier thing isn't your thing, but it's kinda unfair to assume these mamas are doing this car seat thinging 24/7 when really, they might only be doing it for 24 minutes. see, i could have easily been one of those mamas you saw at the coffee shop or wherever, toting her infant around in an infant carrier/car seat, though mine was typically propped up on the snap & go wheels. because as much as i wanted to tote my tot around in a sling, i was unable to do so because of a back injury. and she was unable to do so becasue she HATED the sling! so the car seat/infant carrier with the lightweight frame and wheels was the best thing ever for us. it got us to and fro, allowed me to have hands free to get my grocery shppong done in record time, gave me a free hand to sip my coffee while i wheeledher around. and i assure you, when i wasn't out and about, i held my kid all the freakin time. we sprawled on the floor, had our tummy time, we co-slept (still do), and snuggled every remaining minute of each and every day. and, like dahlia said about her son, i'm pretty sure my daughter enjoyed her time in her seat, too, gazing up at the world around her. and as soon as she could sit up, we progressed to a stroller. Forgive my saying so, but this post comes off as pretty holier-than-thou. Not every mother yearns to hold her baby every second of the day. Does this mean they love their babies less or are inferior as mothers? I don't think so. I mean, the example you use of the mom who kept her baby in a seat under the table, completely ignoring him/her sounds pretty bad- does she do this every week or just the once? Maybe she had just reached the end of her rope that day. i did it myself. the seats are car seats/carriers, hence the handle. it's easier to just grab the child in the seat than to repeatedly transfer him or her back and forth between a more intimate carrier and the plastic one. so if i went out for a coffee or out to eat at a diner or something, i would take that carrier and put it on the table, while i sat and drank and ate, close to my baby, but not holding her. dd enjoyed sitting autonomously in her carrier, looking at the lights and fans in the ceiling.it isn't taht i didn't want to hold my baby, it's that i didn't feel the need to hold her every second of every day, and if i'd known that people were watching me and questioning my 15 minutes or an hour of respite, i'd have felt weird about that.
Well, my city's downtown is pretty much all concrete. I was terrified I might drop my son. If I wore him in a snuggli; people didn't seem to notice him and would crowd me. Once he got elbowed while in there! I shoved the bitch and told her to watch herself. If I had him in his carrier which attached to the stroller, people gave him space. People held open doors. I felt like he was safer. I didn't carry him around in the carrier thing, that's way too heavy and I hate seeing babies shaken around in those. Ever notice their little heads flopping to and fro? While he was in the stroller, I would talk to him. When he was older and in the umbrella stroller we talked all the time; if I was in a hurry I'd pretend we were a stroller derby, making screeching brakes noises, warning him about a hard corner, ask which way we should go, etc. At stoplights I'd tip the whole thing backwards to give him kisses. Maybe some people just saw me at a quiet moment and thought I was ignoring him. Sometimes, it is important for babies to have some quiet time. Does your kid ever scream at you when he's had enough playtime? Mine did. Especially while out and about; there was so much to look at he just wanted to look around sometimes. And, sometimes, I just needed a little time to not be super-happy-chipper-mama and drink my latte in peace after spending hours holding my little mister at home, engaging him, talking to him, loving on him. I did bring bug out in his (it was the carseat/stroller system) when he fell asleep, but not as an all the time thing. It was so much easier on my back to carry him in the snuggly or the sling. I wonder if it's just because someone sees someone else do it and so they start thinking it's the thing to do & they just never realize how much easier it is to use a sling. sometimes easier for me, sometimes not so easy for a mama i know with lupus, etc. i think describing another woman's choice as "creeping me out" is pretty harsh though. we aren't talking about neglect here, what is creepy about putting the occasional (as you see fit) space between you and your baby? maybe something, maybe not. mama judgment has to stop when we are talking about choices when those choices aren't harming the child. Well, carrying babys in seat carriers as a sort of "culture" as Henry made clear, is doing harm to the babys. It is no good to their little spinal bones. Of course, we used the thing, too. But it is a differnce if I use it with sense or if I use it because it seems just convenient. What creeps me out is that mothers doesn't seem to talk to their babys any longer. Maybe I'm wrong but there are so many mothers sitting in the bus, not even watching their baby. Maybe they are just tired but i don't think so. Children are still seen as a disturbing thing , at least in parts of our society. um okay well there is a thread here where you joyfully rip into the MDC community and used language much harsher than Henry. I'm not going to dredge up every thread you ever responded to, wouldn't even mention it here except that it just read your intro. it was so hard on my back, it was a pain to get Sebastian in and out, and because we've always lived in small spaces, I would keep stubbing my toe on the stupid thing. This time around we got a seat that stays in the car - it will serve us much longer (it is good to something like 40 pounds) and it forces me to carry Rigby when I might have otherwise just left her in the seat because it would be easier. People thought we were crazy when we said we wouldn't be buying a "bucket". The only time I miss it is at the grocery store - some days I think it would be nice to just click her seat onto the cart and go... but that's it. ETA - I do love my stroller, though. I can do two kids without it, but I like having the option. Those car seats do happen to double as a little infant carrier. My son's also attached to the stroller. Kinda cool, really. I think I carried my little sweetie in his carrier if I was going someplace that I needed to put him down; like at a restaurant, or something else like that. But I understand what you mean. Babies need to be held all the time! They love the connection! I see so many disaffected moms carrying their kids in carriers like they're objects and not babies. Those little carriers serve their purpose I guess, but I agree, they are way overused. Get one of those little baby slings if you want a hands free moment! Then everybody wins! |
Just PM me and give me your address. I have a Mia wrap, a turtle bag and a baby back pack of some sort. I think that's it. I'll double check.
I agree, mine is 19 mos and I haven't taken the stroller out for months. He'd much rather walk or be held in his sling. He likes to ride on my back and act like a monkey. ONce I got passed being scared I'd drop him I ditched the catseat very quickly. I did leave him for dinner dates with my friends, but we always sat him on top of the table and interacted with him, and almost always ended up taking him out.
I also agree with Denessa'sMom. and maybe we should all start donating some slings for the other Moms. I got lucky and was given two. I certainly can't afford them either. I ended up passing mine along to two new Moms I am close with.
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