Do You Plan on Teaching Your Daughter the Houskeeping Arts?
In one of toddlerspit's blogs she talks about buying a new teapot every 6 months or so because they get so grungy. I posted how to clean it and keep it looking new inside and out. This was one of the many housekeeping things I didn't know about either. My MIL taught me this, when one day out of exasperation she asked me why didn't I clean the teapot (we are big tea drinkers in my house, the teapot stays on the stove). I told her I wiped it off as best as I could but it wouldn't come clean, it was scorched from being on the stove so much. She was so surprised that I didn't know how to clean a teapot, and showed me how.
My own mother did not teach me much about housekeeping. She was a grad student when she was pregnant with me, she actually turned in her thesis for her Master's degree the day she went into labor with me. She worked until I was nearly 3, then she had 2 of my younger sisters, adopted another younger sister, and between all this my parents got full custody of my older brothers and sisters by my dad's ex-wife. So she was a stay-home mom for awhile. When I was around 7 she went back to work full-time, and completely stopped doing housework. But even when she was home I don't recall her cleaning much, and she allowed a lot of disgusting things to go on, like she claims we were all potty-trained by the time we were one, but all that means is she took us out of diapers at age 1. My little sisters were not fully potty trained until they were 3ish, because I sure remember them pissing and pooping on the floor. and my mom would just leave it there until whenever. We also had roach infestation and the sink stayed full of stagnant water and dirty dishes. The house was always really grimy and nasty. We lived in a nice suburb neighborhood in a nice big house but inside it was like some horrible tenement. I was so ashamed of how we lived.
My dad was/is really sexist and refused to clean up much. Every 4 months or so he would get fed up and make us clean the house from top to bottom and it would stay clean for maybe a week before dirt and disorder would come back full force. I realize now that neither of my parents knew how to run a house and they were both overwhelmed by work and raising so many kids. and my father felt like it just wasn't his job, it was my mother's job whether she worked outside the home or not. I remember once when I was about 11 he asked her to quit work and just stay home and take care of the house. She refused, saying it would be a waste of her education and she would be bored staying home. But my mother was a social worker, I still don't understand why she felt it was ok to be so slovenly, to raise her own children in filth when she often had to take other people's kids away for living in squalor just a step below how we lived.
Anyway. The other day my daughter ibop, age 18, said something about not being able to boil an egg. I was so surprised but when I thought about it, it's true that I haven't taught her much about cooking, cleaning, or how to run a household. I really had assumed that she learned by example, from watching me. There are some specific dishes I have taught her step-by-step how to cook, but I have not taught her the basics of cooking. I have not taught her the basics of baking. I haven't taught her how to make a bed, or how to dust, or the other basics of house cleaning. I haven't taught her specifically how to do laundry. I haven't taught her how to set up a pantry, how to can or freeze food, what spices to keep and use. I haven't taught her meal planning and how to buy food. I haven't taught her how to budget. I haven't taught her how to keep a closet and store seasonal clothing. There is so much to running a home, it really is an art and takes skill; it really is something you have to be taught.
I never wanted to put too much household work onto her so all I've ever really required her to do was keep her room clean, vacuum every now and then, and do the dishes. Sometimes I'll ask her to do another chore and she would ask me how to do it, and you know, I always thought she was kidding around.
I feel just terrible about this because I struggled so much as a young mother and young adult with keeping a clean home and making good meals for us because I didn't learn how, the way I was raised. I learned so much on my own and it was so hard. I don't want my daughter to struggle like I did just with keeping a decent home for herself, let alone if she decides to become a mother later. She has said that if she ever has kids, she wants to stay home with them and do the things with them that I do. But how is she going to bake them cookies after school and all and keep the house decent so they can have friends over without feeling ashamed and all if she can't even boil an egg or know how to dust? I feel like I have failed her in an important, fundamental way.
She is staying home for the next 2 years, going to college locally and then transferring to an art school to finish out her degree. She plans to live in the dorms and then get her first apartment. So I do have time to help prepare her to live on her own. I am going to show her this and sit down with her and make a plan for when I can teach her these things. We both have such full schedules now, but I feel confident we can make the time for her to learn a new household skill every other week or so. I'm also going to write down for her each thing, and put it in a binder so that when she leaves home she has a written guide for how to set-up and maintain a household. Yay! I am positive it is not too late, and now she won't flounder or struggle with this stuff like I did.
(p.s I have conflicting feelings about doing this with my sons, but that is another blog)
edited to add on stuff about my sons: I also want my sons to know the minimum, and they actually do already. I have been conscious of doing this with my sons whereas with my daughter I assumed she learned/absorbed this knowledge from watching and identifying with me. I've taught my sons how to do laundry, how to make basic meals (sbop is 12 and cooks at least once a week) and how to clean the bathroom. I am talking about the full-scale running and managing a household...at this point I do not plan on teaching this to my sons. I will teach them the basics, though.
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i've noticed with caleb he just doesnt want to learn. i think thats a lot to do with the fact that i didnt start teaching him anything when he was young and willing to learn. so far i've managed to teach him how to make scrabled eggs, clean the bathroom (as best as he can), make his bed (he still sucks at keeping/cleaning his room), and a bit about gardening. i truely want to teach patience as much as i can about keeping up with the house. i dont know everything, i'm still learning a lot, but i want patience to have an idea of what to do when she has one of her own.
as best I can.
I didn't know much when I left home and it is still a struggle for me to keep my house the way I want. I want my kids to at least have the tools to keep themselves well-fed, clean and rat-free once they leave my home.
i plan to teach the housekeeping arts to both my children. when i met mr sauce, I was appalled at the way he lived mostly because he didn't know how to take care of himself. I don't want my son to live like that. I want both my kids to leave the house knowing how to wash their clothes, cook meals and clean a bathroom at the very minimum. You are right in calling housekeeping an art and a science, it is.
* I'm all fight and no flight *
* I'm all fight and no flight *
full scale running and managing of a household. I don't know if either of my kids will want to learn that (I sure didn't growing up) but I will try.
* I'm all fight and no flight *
How will you explain to him the fact that you do most of the household maintanence, cooking, cleaning, etc. in your home? You and your husband are modeling a traditional family life to him, do you think that might leave a stronger impression than what you say?
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast 
I think about this all the time. So far, my kids have seen mr sauce cook and clean and he does a lot of child care (giving baths, changing diapers, putting to bed etc) but I am mostly a SAHM right now so they do see me do the lions share of the domestic arts. I have a passion for cooking, baking and canning so the kids do that with me. I also love to sew and knit and want to pass those things on to both kids if they are interested. Maybe I will work outside the home in a few years and mr sauce will take on more domestic responsibility, who knows? For me the most important thing I want to role model is flexibility in these roles.
* I'm all fight and no flight *
When your children are older, will he then start doing a full share of the housework and become a co-household manager? If so, why is he choosing not to do so now? I think it is wonderful that you choose to model flexibility in these roles, but I wonder if he is. Have you talked to him about this, about the behavior he is modeling to your children, especially your son?
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
well we divide things up the best we can. I make the milk so that is why I have stayed with the kids when they are small. Plus he makes a lot more money than I did, so if we are going to have one parent at home, it kind of makes sense that it is the one who makes more money (and enjoys making money, I don't) to take care of bringing in the earnings. We co manage the money, he does all the grocery shopping, I do most of the laundry, he does maybe 20% of the cooking and dishes and tries to spend as much time with the kids as he possibly can both for himself and to give me some respite and time to persue my other interests. We have settled on the work division in our relationship trying to make it equal and suited to who we are and what we want to do. We discuss it, make changes as we go along, if one of us feels unhappy we try to sort it out. This is not to say that there haven't been (and aren't still) problems, there are. I don't know if you remember me posting about mr sauce leaving wet towels on our bed of all freaking places and how I pretty much wanted to murder him but he does stuff like that all the time. We have both been raised in a patriarchal culture and have that framework to contend with. At the core though, we both want to be happy and we want each other to be happy. So we are both willing to negotiate.
* I'm all fight and no flight *
I think that's great! It sounds like you are both making the effort to have an equitable marriage.
you wrote:
well we divide things up the best we can. I make the milk so that is why I have stayed with the kids when they are small.
Yes, the biology involved was a big factor for me in choosing my lifestyle.
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
given my family history I am not going to make any assumptions that my son will partner, stay partnered or that if he does partner and stay partnered his partner will be the domestic one. Both my dad and step-dad are the ones who keep house, my dad because he is single and my step-dad because he works from home. My mother and step-father have always split things very equitably and I had just assumed that that was the way things were - he cleans, she cooks, they both share gardening and household maintenance, they trade off budgeting from time to time, but it is always one person in "charge" of finances. They taught me that traditional gender roles didn't have to be the way things were.
My father, on the other hand, taught me that marriages don't always last, that people do end up parenting separately and, later in life, showed me it could be done well. He keeps a nice home and while he has the help of a housekeeper now, he used to do it all on his own. He taught me that men can and should know how to cook a meal, remove a stain, run a house and mend clothes.
So I don't think it was ever a question for me because it was so much of what I grew up with.
And considering Sebastian is only two, things could easily change. I just look at my husband and his brother and know that their ineptitude around the house (Andrew is getting *much* better - I can't speak for his brother having not seen his in his own habitat for quite some time) is the last thing I want for my son. Maybe in my mind I am over-compensating for that? What will happen, I am sure, will be something in the middle.
I've recently started having the kids do some basic house chores. They include dishes 2x a week, cleaning the bathroom (with my supervision), vacuuming the stairs and bringing in garbage/recycling cans. It's a small start but I want them (both the boys and the girl) to be able to do all the housekeeping stuff that I know how to do, and to be able to do it proficiently--not in the half assed way my dad did it.
I'd like to start them cooking soon too, because that is something my sister and I did unsupervised from an early age and I think it is a real confidence and brain booster (though unlike my father I WILL be supervising the cooking). It fosters rule following and creative thought at the same time and is just plain fun too. I still remember my sister and I pouring over the joy of cooking figuring out how to hand whip egg whites for a lemon pie, making Saturday morning pancakes, pitting cherries for a pie and trying out pastry making--all when we were about 8 and 9. Happy memories for me.
She taught me how to make a bed with "hospital corners" (she was a nurse) and fold towels just-so, so that they look orderly and fluffy in the linen closet. She taught me how to do laundry when i was in high school, mostly I think because she got so sick and tired of doing my laundry. She taught me baking and basic cooking and let us do this even though she was a controlling person who really hated kitchen messes..it was hard I think for her. She gave me a clothing allowance with my own checking account when i was in junior high, and taught me how to budget for the year by teaching me how to divide up that allowance in different categories (pants, swimsuit, etc.). I have always been glad that she did this.
I am curious about why you are conflicted regarding doing this with your sons. I definitely plan to do it with both my kids. Also, my kids see DH do alot of this stuff--he does most of the cooking and alot of the cleaning.
I have always regretted that my parents chose to do these things along gender lines--for example, my brothers mowed the lawn and shoveled snow/worked the snowblower, I never learned to do these things. Car maintenance, I never was taught..that kind of thing. I want both my kids to be self-sufficient and also good partners if they choose to have partners.
I think it is so sweet that you are going to share this blog with your daughter and help her explore this world. It's inspiring.
but i plan on teaching him.
A lot of the problems in my marriage (and and also in past living situations) stem from cleaning and cooking issues.
My mother didn't teach me how to cook or clean or mend my clothing or anything really (for a lot of reasons, and it was her choice - I won't go into it) and it was really hard for me when I was on my own...I ate horribly for years, was a bad roommate, cleaned seldom and inefficiently.
In my marriage my husband wants the house very clean all the time, but won't do housework though he does put his shit away. And since housework can still overwhelm me in it's constancy and variety we have had problems (though the huge german shepherd that used to live with us, coating everything with hair, is gone now which has helped a ton). When we finally got home from the hospital with our son and were struggling for most of every day with his feeding issues ( I was struggling that is because I wasn't sleeping and was dealing with his feeding issues for one hour out of every two, plus everything else and run down from months in the hospital) my husband didn't know how to cook and I didn't have the energy or time as he was also unprepared to help out with the baby. He was raised in a dutch family with 4 sisters, he was second youngest of 6 kids - all of the girls learned to cook and clean probably from birth.
So my plan is to teach my son how to cook, clean, pay bills, etc so that he can do it and won't need someone else to do it for him, won't piss off other people because he is inept at it, won't expect his partner to cook for him, clean for him or whatever. That he will have something to contribute.
He is two and he helps clean up his stuff, he "helps" with dishes or cleaning occasionally, puts his unbreakable dishes on the dirty dish shelf at a tea shop we go to regularly and soon we are going to do some kiddy cooking. I am not a great comfortable cleaner myself, but i am a great cook.
My Dad was always the clean parent. He grew up with my Grandmother and Great Grandmother and they weren't having a filthy house. Hell, they wouldn't do with a clean enough house. It had to be perfect. So, he taught me and my little brother how to clean and do things of that nature. My main thing that I learned from him was not to have a bunch of useless shit. As a single father, full time student and full time worker he had to keep it simple. Keeping it simple was important for time management and because we lived in a crappy trailer in the middle of the woods, so bugs were an issue. haha. So, I plan on passing those house managing skills onto my son... no matter how much shit my partner orders in the mail. I also think it's important not to pass on this sexist bullshit to the next generation. I've tried to brake my partner of it and have failed so far. But my son is my son and he already helps me put his toys away. yay.
"Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is for
people who've been to
hell."--quoted by Ken Bruen (Irish crime novelist)
"Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is for
people who've been to
hell."--quoted by Ken Bruen (Irish crime novelist)
what a wonderful thing to pass on. Interesting story--I would have assumed ibop was well versed in a lot of your skills. that's funny, how we can think 'of course they know that!'. I feel failed by my mother in teaching the household arts--she was too Liberated to do that, therefor I'm still driven to tears by the iron. I do teach my son. He's 10 now and I gradually add on to his learning/personal responsibility. No question that I want him to be fully self-sufficient by the time he leaves home, or at least know how if he needs to. I also want my daughter to know how to change a tire and pitch a ball, light a fire, etc.
Thanks for bringing this up--I'm going to consider it some more.
but why are you planning to withhold the knowledge and skills involved in the full-scale running and managing of a household from your sons? i'm even more confused about that in light of you telling mrs. sauce you thought it was cool she was going to share that knowledge and those skills with her son.
my ma gave me what she had - basic household maintenance, basic cooking, money awareness {how many hours of work did X just cost? how much per ounce is this compared to that?}, genius juggling, and thorough budgeting {though i strenuously resist budgets to this day}. with the help of bd {who is a way better cook than me} and other folks {like my seamstress sisterfriend and my home decorating sorceress sisterfriend} in our lives to give her not just what i have, but what they have, too.
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
When I was growing up, my siblings and I all had to do household chores. These did not include cooking, but did include cleaning. The work was divided equally, regardless of gender. And i appreciate that. While I hated the lists of chores that my mother left for me on Saturday mornings when I was a kid, as an adult I do appreciate the sense of responsibility that this instilled in me, and the fact that I learned how to do certain things. i don't remember there being a lot of teaching involved, though, or a lot of discussion about how important it is to work together as a family in order to help with the responsibilities.
I think regardless of gender these are important things. And i think if we as mothers stress to our sons (I don't currently have one, by the way) that they should share equal, rather than minimal, responsibility in household tasks, then hopefully it will help to eliminate them growing up and expecting their partners to clean up after them and take care of them. I think we should promote gender equity in that regard.
I would definitely teach her how to run a household. To me, it's an important part of a person's well-being and independence as an adult. That being said, I definitely plan on teaching my two sons how to cook, clean, stay organized, make and stay on a budget, keep a tidy house, do laundry and basically look after themselves.
My DH was raised in a family where the women didn't teach their sons any of this stuff, because they were afraid that if they were too self-sufficient, they'd never get married. (Seriously!) DH lived on his own for 14 years before I met him, so he learned how to survive without a mother, wife or girlfriend. However, my BIL is totally, completely helpless. He and my SIL divorced a few years ago, and it's shocking how inept and clueless the guy is. I would not want my sons to go into relationships, or into the world, like that.
In my family everyone was taught how to cook - girls and boys. But I was the only girl, and the only one who was taught how to clean. I always thought that was patently unfair. As soon as my sons are able to handle chores, they will be helping me out!
Based on what you've said, Mercury, I can also see why you wouldn't have wanted to single your daughter out to teach her stuff, since she's the girl. I don't think it's too late now to show her stuff - as a matter of fact, she may be more receptive now, since she's older and can more easily visualize having her own place someday? I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, though. I rebelled my entire childhood against a neat-freak mom. As an adult, I like to live in a house that feels like the one my mom kept. I'm sure i-bop will have absorbed a lot of that from you already!
I am a little surprised that you would take so much time to show your daughter 'the full-scale running and managing a household' but will not do the same with your sons. It is like you are assuming that there will always be someone else in their lives to take care of them, basically they will always have a woman looking after them. I don't think that is fair to future generations of women.
What if one of your sons is gay or never gets married or becomes a widower with small children? Even if they never use all of the knowledge at least they will always know that they don't have to depend on anyone else to run their lives.
DH and I plan on showing our son every aspect of our lives, from cleaning to car repair, what he does with the knowledge will but up to him.
for the girls...
there are many many many men out there in the states and from all over the world, who want a traditional marriage or partner arrangement with women, who being the primary financial support of their wives and family are a deep part of their belief system, their very being. If my daughter wants to have this type of marriage/relationship, there is no reason she can't have it. She can make a conscious choice to pick a man who feels the same way she does about this. I think often people happen to meet and happen to fall in love and happen to set up house together without even finding out if they are on the same page on this, as far as what kind of relationship they want.
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
in short -- and again, not to be rude, but even the best partner/provider can have an accident (god forbid) or pass away, not to mention those that seem good from the outset and leave and then choose not to provide (I have seen very rich men, who were considered "good dads" and "nice guys" go to great lengths to avoid supporting a wife or kids post-divorce). SO then what happens to the woman who can't provide for herself? I just don't think it's realistic to expect that life will unfold as one wishes it will.
Further, this model/attitude invalidates the experiences of all of us who are living in a different way -- so what, because we do not have a man who provides (I am the primary provider in my family and my husband does most of the child care) or because some of us happen to be single moms, does that make us somehow less? We have already been told that by society at large and to be honest I resent being told that here.
read over everything I have written. I am talking specifically about my life, my daughter, my sons, my marriage. I am not saying or implying that YOU or anyone else should live this way, choose this lifestyle, or raise your children in this way. My choices do not invalidate yours in any way. It's a little scary to me that you think the way I choose to live has the power to invalidate your life!
and yes things, happen, but that still does not change the fact that marriage is usually an option for those who want it. People do remarry after the death of a spouse or after a divorce. There are so many people out there from all walks of life there is no reason my daughter couldn't find and marry a man who shared her beliefs if she wanted to.
I also want to stress that I am not raising my daughter to be unable to provide for herself if need be, just like I am not raising my sons to have zero household skills.
and though we are making a conscious choice to model a certain lifestyle to our children and to pass on our ideals and beliefs about marriage, please understand that they are exposed to other households including single mother and single father households, other types of relationships, and other lifestyles and ways that people choose to live together because we fully realize they may make different lifestyle choices as adults than how they were raised.
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
or self-righteous? i was trying to put my finger on what it was about your contributions to this exchange that was setting my teeth on edge. the differences of opinion are stimulating, so i didn't think it was that. after some mulling, i concluded that it was the tone - or at least the tone as i'm perceiving it. i know you are a careful communicator and are unlikely to have intended this tone, and i may be the only one hearing it, but it's definitely ringing in my teeth.
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
Every time you see I'm not going to agree with you or change my stance you call me sanctimonius. LOL! You are so funny!
I think anytime someone is pressed to defend their way of life they come off as sanctimonious, so I am not worried about it. You want to call me sanctimonious, ok, whatever.
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
_almost_ everytime you are challenged on this board, you repeat yourself a few times in a high-handed tone, and then bail. the rare occasions when you thoughtfully engage are some kind of bait and switch that i really shouldn't keep falling for. and again, just for the record, i think it's completely possible to "defend [one's] way of life" without coming off as sanctimonious, but only if there was some actual, ya know, thorough critical thought already put into the choice of said way of life. if it's an entirely reactionary caving to or against tradition and culture, then yes, the sanctimony is inevitable.
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
to all who responded, I appreciate it
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast
every child i have known has expressed an interest in cooking around age two and beyond. it is difficult to include a toddler in the kitchen arts, but it is a great time to get started. same goes for cleaning. toddlers love to mimic adults behavior. they want to sweep like you sweep or (god forbid) clean the toliets like you do. i think it is great to teach them age appropriate household skills throughout their entire lives.
my son is interested in helping us clean (sweep, vacuum, wipe up, do dishes), garden, shop and prepare food. Every time we let him help it makes the job 10x harder - but we let him and encourage him because we're assuming that desire will fade otherwise and we will have missed our chance.
He has started to express interest in my sewing projects and I am teaching him what I can in an age-appropriate way. We do the same when we conduct home repairs.
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I also want my sons to know the minimum, and they actually do already. I have been conscious of doing this with my sons whereas with my daughter I assumed she learned/absorbed this knowledge from watching and identifying with me. I've taught my sons how to do laundry, how to make basic meals (sbop is 12 and cooks at least once a week) and how to clean the bathroom. I am talking about the full-scale running and managing a household...you plan to teach your son that? that's cool.
MSPmedia
A little sunshine goes a long way, share your happy today!
~Trula Breckenridge, Positivity Enthusiast