the Advice Bitch needs advice *EDIT*
My husband is having a hard time again and long story short, one way this manifests is him being mean to me. He can go days or longer without being hostile, then suddenly, he turns on me. Snide comments, including - late last week - him coming into the bedroom while I was sleeping and making a mean-spirited comment. This woke me up and sent my heart racing even as I laid there and tried to calm myself (all internal). There have been two nights in the last week where his goodnight attitude and comments kept me up for a while with my stomach gnawing and my mind working too hard. It is interfering with my sleep and I can't afford to let that happen. And yes, I have talked about it with him but he did it again last night.
We have a counseling appointment today. Here are my options as I see it:
1. I can get on some meds to manage my stress over this issue. No matter what he's doing, this is MY stress and I know that. I have tried very hard to manage it and in multiple ways but my reserves are eroding.
2. I can ask him to take a time out from our family. I need peace in my home right now. I have made it clear to him before that he is always welcome, but his nastiness is not. He has in the past seemed to understand this difference and respect me when I've made this caveat. P.S. I hate, hate, hate the idea of ever "kicking out" my husband in any way. It goes against my values. But I really would be offering him a choice and my preference is he stay, without giving himself license to be a jerk.
I don't want to do either of those two things but honestly, they aren't that bad either compared to how much this can interfere with my peace.
This is a hard issue for me and I'm only vulnerable about it on HipMama because A. I have received some stand-up advice here, and B. I really can't find it within myself to discuss it with anyone IRL except my one friend, and she's not around right now. So those with advice that is actually creepy advice taking advantage of my hurt and confusion, please don't apply yourselves to this blog (I'm sorry to have to say this but, it's really happened here before. Ugh).
* EDIT 7/10 *
First, I want to thank everyone who weighed in. Every response was helpful or at least bolstered me a bit.
We had a counseling appointment. It was really hard! I was so angry when we left. It seems things have really been more difficult for us since the move. But post-counseling I felt better after about an hour. We put the kids in front of some Spongebob and talked a few things out. He has a new project where he rights down his feelings when he's mad instead of picking on me.
I have the, "take off for a few days" card in my back pocket and he agrees to those terms, even if he gets very sad and unhappy thinking he might have to leave. I think I finally believe him that he doesn't want to act out in this way, he just can't help it right now. However I am all done tolerating it or walking on eggshells. I need to experience more peace and be less sensitive to his moods or fearful of his anger. For now, I need to be able to banish it if he can't speak to me respectfully.
Anyway - thanks all. Will keep hanging in there.
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
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to help with your stress, do it. You can't change how he is so take care of yourself first. I assume you two have discussed this in counseling before? Or is this the first time?
He doesn't have a license to be a jerk. Do you confront him with it? Do you lay there with your heart racing and say nothing?
Is he held accountable for his words every time he says something shitty? Do you let things slide to keep the peace?
He is responsible for his actions. You are responsible for letting him know how it makes you feel. If he can't respect that even after discussion you have to think about whether you want to live with someone who likes to ping on you when you are vulnerable.
I do know what you are saying. I HATE mean/snide comments. If you have a problem with something I am saying or doing, tell me with honesty and respect. If you want to be an asshole, go be one by yourself.
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
It is hard to advise on this situation though. All I can say is that your feelings are totally valid, you aren't overreacting, you can't change him, and in the end...is the marriage worth the pissy comments? If you are a a stick through it no matter what kind of gal, go get some Zoloft or Xanax. If not, take it to the next level with him. No threats, just reality.
"I feel a lot of compassion for him and hope he pulls out of it. I hope I can help him." That is a good place to be. Just remember to not sacrafice your feelings and life because he isn't willing to confront his own issues and get over them.
Sorry you are going through this.
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
and knows his faults..he wouldn't mind you putting up signs everywhere that say
"If you don't have anything nice to say...keep your mouth shut!" as a "gentle" reminder. 
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
I am all for meds but for the right reasons. I do not think meds will help you because they won't change HIS behavior which is the root of the problem. Meds may take the edge off for you but they aren't doing anything to correct the real problem.
I personally like the second idea. I believe that sometimes we all need a healthy break. I think that it can be a very positive thing. Maybe if you guys have a break, you can come back together refreshed and talk about this. Keep with the counseling, too. Is this counselor helping at all? If not, find another one.
I am sorry you are going through this. But you're not alone. I think many of us here struggle with similar issues. I hope you can get some helpful advice here. Big hugs.
"Here I am. Rock you like a hurricane."
-The Scorpions
"Here I am. Rock you like a hurricane."
-The Scorpions
And another option is to take a break yourself. Why can't you and the kids (or you by yourself) visit out of town relatives for a couple of days? I went on break by myself a few years ago, and it helped my sanity. It also helped my husband sit and deal with himself and see what life would be like without me around. You have a right to be treated with respect first for what you're gaining in counseling to stick. Does this sound anywhere in the ballpark, or am I just missing it altogether? ((hugs))
"To have a vibrant future we must invest in our children.
The best way to ensure children are well cared for is to support their mothers." --MomsRising.org
i just wanted you to know i read this, and i hope you get through this. i won't offer advice because that last bit about creepy advice seemed really loaded, but take care.
"All persons, whether living or dead, are entirely coincidental." Kurt Vonnegut
but i lost my internet connection. thanks for assuring me, but i was just kind of worried that you were in too vulnerable a place and the advice i offered might feel creepy to you when i had no idea.
p.s. the aftereffect of the taco filling is just as interesting as the taste. heh.
"All persons, whether living or dead, are entirely coincidental." Kurt Vonnegut
can't wait for the after-effects!
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
I have similar issues in my household, so I really felt the need to respond to this. First, I'm so sorry you are going through this with your husband. It hurts like a bitch, and it is not okay for him to do.
I do not think you should take meds to deal with HIS shitty behavior, as another poster said.
"He is always welcome, but his nastiness is not." I really like that. I think it is a great attitude to have. If he feels the need to be nasty, he can take it away from your household. You DO deserve peace in your home, and so do your children!
I hope I have not offended you, or stepped on any toes with my post. Like I said, I feel pretty strongly about this issue, and have some similar personal experience. I think you are a very strong, intelligent woman, and I admire how you have handled things. Best of luck!
Does this need to be an either/or solution? One seems like it might take a little longer to activate any real change (ie. meds) while the other is more immediate.
Your stress is compounded by his behavior but it is probably not the whole cause. I'm thinking it's probably more of a big picture thing but is more apparent after one of his zingers? If so, perhaps meds are a good idea for you. You know your life and your stress level best. If you feel that your reserves are eroding and that meds would help then I think you should persue it.
I also think it is 100% reasonable to ask for a time-out. If he cannot conduct himself in a way that is healthy for your family (and being nasty to his co-parent affects everyone) then you have every right to ask him to step back and think about his behavior.
Another option would be to see if you could get some time apart for yourself. Either with or without the kids. Give yourself to recharge and give him some time to think.
Good luck to you. You are someone who looks at things from a lot of different angles and is very good at coming up with solutions. I hope you can find some resolution that works for you.
I get that needing to recharge in your own environment. I am like that, too.
I think it is good to talk about all your options with the counselor.
I hope nothing I have offered up in the past registered as "creepy"...
I was married in my early twenties and my partner at the time was a good man and very talented but just so damn angry from past abuse and a really "backwards" mother...
I used to come home from work (second job) as I was helping put him through college and he would look up from his desk, scowl like "oh great it's YOU", no further acknowledgement. By the time our relationship ended he had physically abused me and at one point threatened my life. I am not corrolating this with your situation but only to say in some ways the physical was easier just because I could have his ass arrested. It wasn't ambiguous. The counselors all agreed that the verbal mental stuff is the worst cuz it is insideous and hard to address.
I know you love him and want to make it work. I think you can and you are doing many of the right things but please don't go on drugs (I don't have anyting against drugs) in this situation. You don't WANT to handle this any better, you CAN'T and SHOULDN'T handle this any better. You are doing great and it is his prob. If anything you are taking on too much responsiblity by trying to conform your "behaviour" to allow him to get away with his. My preferance is for him to be given a break from the family so he can wake his ass up to the seriousness of the matter.
I am so sorry you are going through this and I really hope he can get some constructive help for the festering anger he is experiencing. I don't know all the particulars but I really believe he can get a grip on this but sometimes, as they say, you have to hit rock bottom and maybe the time away will do that for him.
Keep us posted darlin' and I'm here for you...
The heart has its reasons whereof Reason knows nothing.
- Blaise Pascal
Ok, I am going to beg you not to go on medications since you say you don't want to.
Maybe get your own seperate counsellor for your stuff, or take homeopathics or something, but a lot of medications have side effects and are VERY hard to get off of. I know so many women who go on anti anxiety or depression medications who aren't able to get off, or the meds produce kind of horrific side effects sometimes - if you were miserable and really thought this was your only option, or your best bet at staying alive and ok enough to get the help you need, then sure, do what you have to do. But in my (opinionated) opinion, medications are not quick fixes or often fixes at all and I often see them cause more trouble than the problem they are supposed to relieve in many cases. ***And no, mamas, I am not attacking anyone who takes them or calling anyone stupid or shortsighted or crazy or anything - just that they are not, in my mind, always the best solution when there are other options available -especially when she says she doesn't want to take them. I am aware that I am no doctor, that I am not in the situation and that everyone needs to make the decision for what works for them***
And I hope you are ok. What a hard thing. You know my husband and I have some "issues", so I am not saying poor poor little Kitty, but it's hard to be in a place where these are the options you are considering. And you are fabulous and I am sorry that this is going on for your family right now.
Try passionflower first, because I find it to be gentler to the system. If you need something stronger, valerian is always there. Those work for sleep for me.
For the day to day, I find Calms Forte to be good. I know there are people who find OTC homeopathic remedies to be hogwash, but they've always worked fine for me. YMMV.
ETA: Okay, I read all the responses, finally, and it's good advice. I think you'll find your way.
what about acupuncture? They can destress you pretty good.
I always take kava for panic attacks and valerian for sleep. It helps DH so much when he is feeling PTSDie
I am swisterland...switzerland? fuck it, I am swiss.
who gets in funks, which in the past (we're talking in my adolescence here, but I think it can still apply) have manifested in particuarly nasty, rude, cantankerous ways, and generally with the people that I loved, trusted, and needed the most, I would say that the most productive thing you could do would be to ask him to move on out until he can get his shit together. I say this because,
A) while your feelings are your own, it's still his nastiness, and the way I see it,
B) part of loving someone is calling them on their shit, and
C) sometimes calling someone on their shit is not letting them treat you like shit, because
D) sometimes people who can be assholes have a lot of really difficult stuff going on with them inside, and they need help having clear, kept boundaries drawn around their behavior, because
E) presumably the dude loves you, and (this next statement may be problematic, but I'm gonna go out on a limb with this assumption) if he didn't need help not acting like an ass, he wouldn't be being one.
Medicating yourself to deal with his nastiness is letting him be an ass. Throwing him out is a clear message that it will not be tolerated, that you will not let him be a big nasty asshole to you and make a big nasty asshole of himself. What happens from there depends on him, which is maybe the scary part of it. I guess all of this depends on what you want as an outcome. Immediate, temporary peace, or potential change?
And if any of this was creepy, please let me know. You know what is said about assholes and opinions, so take this advice for what it is worth.
A - E, it almost sounds like you've been in our house. Your "out on a limb" really rings true. It is nice to hear something that approaches his side of the story, you know? I don't really need a bunch of chicks saying, "Kick his ass to the curb, fuck him!" or whatever. Because I know that's an option, and I don't want to tear our relationship down any further.
"What happens from there depends on him, which is maybe the scary part of it."
Yeah, it really is.
"I guess all of this depends on what you want as an outcome. Immediate, temporary peace, or potential change?"
All of the above? 
Thank you, theo.
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
I am sorry to hear that this is such an ongoing issue with your dh. Is he in therapy by himself in addition to going with you to couple's therapy? It sounds to me that if he isn't, he really needs to be. I think that when a man is paired with a strong female who expects to be treated - er, with respect, like a fellow human - it is often difficult for him to manage his inner anger/rage. I can't speculate about his childhood or where he learned to manage his anger but it sounds like he needs some re-directing, some new skills. And I bet your presence at therapy makes it difficult for him to really deal with his anger. You have talked about this before on HM, and I’m sure all the advice you are hearing today is reconfirming what you already feel in your deepest thoughts. I know your dh is a “good guy,” but even the good ones have a hard time with anger. My dh has been relearning anger management skills for the past 13 years. He is doing better, and I am much better at responding to his anger, but it is not an easy road.
Godspeed, K.
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb
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"I assume you two have discussed this in counseling before? Or is this the first time?"
Many times. The discussion is always good. He is having trouble changing - to understate things.
"He doesn't have a license to be a jerk. Do you confront him with it? Do you lay there with your heart racing and say nothing?"
Yes, I've confronted him. I've dealt with it many ways but these days I say nothing. Because I don't want it to get worse and when he's feeling poisonous toward me, there's nothing I can do except "toe the line" and wait for it to pass. This is so not "me" - not ever, not even a few years ago. But it's how I am now. That's why now I just want him to leave unless he can control it. Because I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in order to keep the peace. I mean I understand situations where this happens every now and then, but sadly we're in a slump where this becomes our way of life.
"Is he held accountable for his words every time he says something shitty? Do you let things slide to keep the peace?"
I let things slide so it doesn't get worse. But it's not really keeping the peace; he doesn't have peace within. At least, not right now. He has for most of our relationship and I just really hope he (we) can help him find it again.
"I do know what you are saying. I HATE mean/snide comments. If you have a problem with something I am saying or doing, tell me with honesty and respect. If you want to be an asshole, go be one by yourself."
You know, it means tons that you (and some others here) even understand what I'm talking about. I had to stop talking to my mom about my marital problems because she (at one time my sole and major confidant) just wasn't getting it - she seemed to think I was taking unnecessary offense at argument or conflict. I don't think she knows what it's like to live with someone who goes through periods of time trying to "get" you. It's horrible.
Thanks for weighing in and I really appreciate your perspective. It isn't all that easy to talk about because part of me judges myself for having this problem in the first place. But it isn't really my problem; it's my husband's, and the symptoms very difficult for me. And I don't judge him for having problems, either. I feel a lot of compassion for him and hope he pulls out of it. I hope I can help him.
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."