High-energy little boys
I've been noticing this boy in my daughter's swimming class. This boy wiggles and "misbehaves" quite a bit more than the other children, all of whom are expected to sit on the side of the pool while, two at a time, their instructors take them out to practice skills. Most children manage fine with this. Even this child (his name is C) does reasonably well, but does tend to break rules (no splashing, etc) and doesn't tend to listen when told to stop breaking the rules.
From what I can tell, there are a few things going on here. One, I notice C is getting "targeted" by both his mother and the instructor. For instance, my daughter would be playing with the noodle-float along with C, but the teacher upon seeing this would verbally correct C. Yesterday while I paid close attention, this happened every time anyone was ever misbehaving! The second thing happening is, no one ever physically follows through or (sometimes) even checks to assure the boy is following these commands.
So we get the pattern: many verbal commands, much negative attention, very little follow-through on the part of the adults. The boy ignores the commands and continues to misbehave, meanwhile receiving a heck of a lot of "don'ts" and very few "good job" or "thank you" feedback. Meanwhile as well this little boy is in effect allowed to break the rules without logical consequences (besides getting yelled at, which he seems used to).
I don't blame this particular mom in entirety because A. she likely has her hands full (she has an infant as well) and B. the situation isn't in her control, either. I am starting to blame us - the rest of us - who are not stepping up for children like this. This child may indeed grow up to be a bully, an entitled male, what-have-you (P.S. I know girls can be "this child" too). And why would he not? The world is telling him he doesn't do things "right", but the world is not giving him incentive to perform to social standards nor applying consequences when he does. (I realize I am talking about a swim lesson, but I am thinking about the bigger picture here in this little boy's life).
I have heard people talk about children such as this and blame the lesson or the setting. "School is lame because you're expected to sit still and my little so-and-so can't do that." I understand this argument yet, sitting still and listening is a skill we all need to learn to enjoy life. It may be the very thing that is against one's nature, but that does not mean a child of 4 shouldn't have our help developing it. Also, deferring to authority is also a useful skill to be able to employ and one at times necessary for us to keep our job, our family, the life we want. I believe we owe it to our children to help them develop this skill as well.
Also, it is not fair to other children, to the world, to raise a bully. To those parents I urge them not to "give up" because their child is high-spirited. To those Mamas: do not make this job YOURS alone. Invite fathers or partners in to participate. And also, invite your village in as well. Ask the world to treat this child with respect but also, to hold this child to consequences.
From my experience, many adults end up yelling at or scolding children like this (or silently disliking them). This seems lazy to satisfy the urge to correct without follow up. If I can say, "C, sit down!" and roll my eyes at another mommy as if to say, "This one never listens!" I am getting the cheap satisfaction of "handling" or judging a misbehaving child (and his Mama) without putting much work into helping him comply. When I think about how many of us do this for misbehaving children I feel like we are letting down their mothers and fathers and indeed the child him-(her)self.
My thoughts are we all need to be responsible for this child. If this child comes for a playdate, I need to ascertain what rules are inviolate and be prepared to gently but firmly spend a little more time helping the child have fun at my house while respecting some of our rules.
I have a three year old son who is (thanks to nature, our efforts, and his sister's teaching) relatively social and does follow rules. But when he doesn't, he is often either let off the hook entirely - because he's "cute", and let me tell you, my equally-cute daughter never got as much free reign when she was his age - or scolded (preemptively sometimes) without eye contact. I am lucky because my Nels is not too high-spirited and enjoys successful relating to adults - that is, he still covets and receives positive attention - but I also notice he doesn't seem to get loving guidance from the public as often as my daughter has.
Thoughts?
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
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It is TRULY hard to understand the child/parent dynamic of a high energy child unless you have one. Actually I think it is impossible.
It is also very easy to attribute all the good things your own child is to your skills as a parent, but that isn't always the case either.
I think whenever we put children in a group and expect them to be automatons (sit, speak, play at proper intervals) it makes the higher energy ones look like little monsters.
As a parent of a HE child I know that telling Ike to do anything is a waste of time. If it is something he needs to cease and desist, I have to go get him and tell him to stop as I am stopping him. The odd thing is after a few years of this I have let go of the dream child image of a clean fully clothed little boy saying "yes ma'am, I will eat my peas ma'am" to appreciating the fearlessness and dirt of my little man. I don't want to have to teach him how to live outside the box after years of having to conform to his controlling mom (and I can be that).
Why do we as a society need our children to be able to stand in line like a row of ducks? Convenience. No other reason.
I was raised by mom to obey but was given a pretty free hand to go do what I wanted. I learned from my father that rules are only there to remind you of the consequences. Not so you can be a person who recites the rules perfectly. This combination of guidance made me into a person who feels there are no boundaries, you just need to find the right road, the right sequence. I learned patience through age, not by standing in line in Kindergarten.
Is it genetic to have a rule bender? Maybe. Maybe it is learned. But my HE kid isn't a bully. He is the most outgoing and caring child in social situations. He likes running with the pack, but he is already wanting others to follow (even if they are 5 years older).
And I like that.
The rest of it will be worked through as he gets older and we conquer what all other HE children are most likely facing, food allergies and sensitivities. Not lazy parents.
**this is just a full opinion, not a rant at others beliefs**
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
I so love what you wrote lapina. I haven't seen my kids in social situations very often (other than play dates at a friends house) so am not sure where Max fits in on the spectrum of strong-willed. I do agree that it isn't necessary for a four year old to learn to obey other adults for the convenience of the adult - which is what is happening in the above scenario.
However, I 100% think that it is the adults in the situation who should help to guide the child into behavior that is fair for everyone around him. Shrugging the rough-playing or out of boundaries play off as being “strong-willed” is a disservice to the child and every one the child interacts with growing up.
If that were my son, I’d pull him out of those types of group activities because clearly, he isn’t ready to fall in line - and there is nothing wrong with that, it would actually make me proud!
Maybe if I was exhausted and saw the swim time as a break, it would be harder. Let me tell you though, if another parent or the instructor (less likely because they are the one’s who set the rules and don’t want to or can’t put extra effort into making sure they are followed) help gently guide my kid into “good” behavior, I wouldn’t have any problems with that and would feel grateful for the help.
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb
And I do have to clarify that being my mothers daughter, I don't allow any actions that harm another. Or really step out of the norm. No playing on the wheelchairs at the grocery store, no incessent yelling, no hitting-spitting-pinching. Even though Ike doesn't do these things in social situations we are still OUTSIDERS because I can't get him to sit still for 10 minutes during story time like all the other little angels. What am I supposed to do? Break his legs? He was made that way and that is just how it is.
I just had problems making the connection between "This child may indeed grow up to be a bully, an entitled male, what-have-you (P.S. I know girls can be "this child" too). And why would he not? ". I didn't see that enywhere in the post. Just a louder than normal not paying attention (welcome to my world) kind of child.
Oh and I love you Bird for this "If that were my son, I’d pull him out of those types of group activities because clearly, he isn’t ready to fall in line - and there is nothing wrong with that, it would actually make me proud! "
Fucking beauty!
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
for that reason about 6-8 months ago, we have not gone back to one sice because he is not a story-time type guy. We read at home and that works for us - he sees a room full of kids and wants to network.
I think Kelly's point is that by yelling (without making eye contact or following through on threats) and not helping to correct behaviours we, as a community, run the risk of raising a boy who will constantly push limits and push/yell at people. He's never (in theory, and we are inferring lots and lots here) been dealt with any other way. Negative actions have the pay-off of a loud response and not much else - positive actions don't have that same pay-off, so fictional kid A will continue to push the envelope until it becomes his (or her) nature.
Anyways, I am babbling now and my son just got up from his nap.
I think Isaac sees all these kids sitting down and thinks "what the hell is wrong with them? C'mon team, lets go PLAY"
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
He tries to get other kids to dance- he'll tell them, "Dance! Up! Dance!" but then he'll grab their shirts and try to get them to physically do it- when I thought about it the other day, he's doing just what I have taught him. I always ask or encourage him to do something that needs to get done but then I will grab him and put him in the booster seat or car seat or take him away from the toilet plunger, etc.... I think the world is too harsh on these spirited high energy kids... And I totally think that people label them automatically as being out of control or trouble or problems and then constantly criticize them and isolate them without really addressing the issues behind it or accepting that every kid is different and not all fit the mold. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't want my son to do everything I say- he is spirited and acting his age, being A KID and I like it that way- he also will be better at knowing his own mind when he is an adult and closer to living the life that was meant for him than some of the little zombies I see out there.
consequences, not threats. I knew there was a better way to frame it.
Being the wife of a youth librarian, I find it incredibly disturbing that ANY story time host for toddlers would have issues with the kids not paying attention. Max would often run around the room during story time, but any good librarian (yes, making a judgment!) would STILL encourage the parent to show up at story time. A toddler running around during a reading session is so normal. The idea is to expose children to books and libraries at a young age as a part of their reading experience/learning process. Expecting them to sit still and listen shouldn't even be on your's or the librarian's radar.
I'm now wondering if it is the parents who are feeling insecure about their kid running around compounded with the lack of encouragement that it is OKAY from the librarian that makes so many people not go to story time with small kids?
However, I do know that many libraries don't have appropriate rooms for toddlers to run around in during story time (kid-proofed) - this is a disservice to the children in the community. I will only take my kids to story time at Hal's library for this reason - his library is brand new (green building at that) with a room set up for story times for kids.
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb
Is with a slighty stuffy very rule bound librarian. I should add she is nice, but it is almost like she has never had children.
They put them into a tiny room and every single kid sits with his/her parent on the floor. Both doors closed.
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
That sucks! I'm sure its common, though. Hal is a pretty hip librarian and tends to correspond with other hip librarians as well. Sadly, they are probably far and few between!
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song. - Chinese Proverb
the good news is there are loads of hip librarians out there too - it is just a matter of seeking them out and making the effort to get to their libraries. Oh how I wish it were different, I can't imagine the families who simply can't commute to another library for logistical reasons. Big ups to all the Hals out there!
and across a state line is too much. Lol. Unfortunately there are not alot of libraries in the area to choose from. Oh well.
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
It may take some kids a while longer than others to be able to sit/pay attention/be still -- I still have trouble with this -- perhaps rather than forcing it, there could be a gradual easing in to this kind of behavior.
don't sign your kid up for activities until they are ready? Male or female?
Every kid has their moment to shine be it, drawing, running, swimming, throwing hoops....
although, that said, at some point kids are *expected* to follow some sense of turn taking or paying attention. Just not sure all kids fall into that at tha same time?
.
just wanted to say HE on my new dryer stands for High Efficiency! Maybe Ike's a good little energy saver!
some sort of biobattery, Ike could power the whole house plus maybe the neighbors. Ha just looked that up and they are working on it.
http://www.bioscienceworld.ca/USNanomedicineCentretoStudyBiobatteryProdu...
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
I always joke with my DS saying I wish I had his energy, so he always tries to give me some of his! LOL
"Have a safe lunch, use a condiment."
he was standing in, it was nice to read this. We haven't been to story time (which I know is farther down but I am responding here 
) after a tantrum incident and just kind of realizing that it's not worth it. I miss the story time lady who sometimes invited us out with her her daughter and her grandson, though and I felt bad running into her at the library after going missing a month. So anyway, he never sat down, I used to bring snacks and that would work. I eventually started feeling bad about bringing food into the library as he was no longer small enough to really get away with it. He started freaking out a little, running too fast with sticks in his hands, hitting me with them. I was always on edge wondering when he'd whack another little kid. The last straw was the day he chucked his cup, not at anyone just frustrated, and it was an inch from a small child's head. I decided then that I couldn't handle. Unfortunately this means we don't socialize much with other kids which sucks for him. I think that's important for HE kids, to socialize but I would only feel comfortable with another HE kid.
This afternoon we met with a mom, her son is roughly the same size as Bug. That is a big issue for me, he's a bruiser and I would hate to see him seriously injure anyone because he doesn't really understand a lot of stuff yet. It's like trying to corral a tornado. I don't try to control him very much just keep him & those around him safe, challenging enough. It was great to watch the two boys together though. Bug did knock him down with a bug bear hug but that was the worst and that was just funny.
I don't think HE translate so easily into bully. I have delt with a lot of bullies and I don't think one of them was a HE kid. Most of the HE kids in my elementary school were friendly, maybe a little shaky about bounderies but not bullies by any stretch.
I am too rambly right now I know.
I am swisterland...switzerland? fuck it, I am swiss.
SHe's SO EXCITED about everything, a total joy but around other kids her age is a bit over the top. "Trying to corral a tornado" is about right. She's a big kid too, walked early so is very physical, and I can't help but thinking when I come across other kids her age how small and delicate they look and how passive they act. Thankfully we have a few friends whose kids are more like 2 (vs. her 16 mo) and they play well together. Maybe this might work for you -- the bigger kids are a bit more rambunctious/able to deal with more craziness...plus you don't have to worry about them being unsteady new walkers when your kid goes to bear hug them.
At a baby shower recently, one of the dads called her the Tank. While I didn't love the nickname, I could kinda see where it came from.
he's not violent, actually he's really sweet but big and strong so he'll play with another kid his size and they'll be great together. He gets pushed down and just laughs, he can handle himself really well. When he's with smaller kids I am just holding my breath the whole time. There was one boy at story time half his size and I felt the same way, he just looked so tiny and fragile. Bug would never attack/hit/hurt intentionally but he may be unaware of a kid nearby and throw something down & hit the kid or run into them without noticing, he's 1 1/2, it's normal. I would rather be able to relax and enjoy him playing than be constantly worried about him unintentionally hurting a smaller kid.
I am swisterland...switzerland? fuck it, I am swiss.
Even though I have 2 'easy?' girls. My MIL is an elementary school psychologist and we've talked about the slippery slope that some kids are shoved down once labeled 'difficult'. But of course, said girls aren't allowing me my computer time right now so hopefully I can follow up later....
I have a high-energy little boy, he's two and has been called a terror (and not only by me and mine) and do often get anxious thinking about how things will be.
Boys (as in the whole "boys will be boys" bit) are totally alien to me. I have three much younger sisters, my parents didn't really socialise me with any boys when I was young and as I grew up my neighbourhood friends were almost exclusively female. My son is "such a boy" he climbs and jumps and has nearly zero fear (see my most recent personal blog entry) and is "difficult"and "rambunctious" and "trouble" - and some days I just don't know what to do.
There is often the feeling, from outside, from strangers, that I should be doing a better job of "controlling" my son, and on my weaker days I will buy right into that and yell first, ask questions later. It turns into this feeling of needing to be ever-diligent, waiting for him to push a boundary and then reacting to it. Again, because I feel like that is how I am "supposed" to be handling things. This hyper-vigilance becomes almost un-conscious and utterly exhausting, in the end I resent him for taking me away from what I may have intended as my own social time. And then I feel guilty for resenting him for being an excited two-year old.
I am thankful that I get to see and feel this all now because it gives me the chance to stand back and figure out how I can do things differently. The thing that worked this week in a situation that really could have been all that and more, was to treat it as a learning experience for the both of us. We attended a busy indoor play place (complete with bouncy castles and a very wide age range) and I decided very early that I would not be getting any time to talk to the friends I had come with, instead I did things like wait in lines with S because he wanted to ride the big rides, and compliment him every chance I got (as well as almost any other child I made contact with - kids eat that stuff up 
). The difference was amazing, we had a couple tantrums at the end and one time out after he hit a child, but we both felt on top of our game.
Now, every time I find myself sitting on the sidelines and yelling I hear the voice of a good friend saying "Kate, don't be a hockey mom - if you need to tell him something, get up and tell him, otherwise just sit here, enjoy your coffee and watch, everything will be alright." She went on to remind me he wouldn't be listening anyways ("he's in the zone") and that except for cases of danger, he would learn social (and spatial) lessons on his own, likely better, without my input.
hmm, I can't remember if I had a point here (call me rambly joe). High-energy little boys, they need lots to do, lots of positive re-enforcement and lots of chances to have to exist along-side other kids of different temperments. At least that's what we're trying now .
I do have to say that I honestly appreciate it every time someone pays Sebastian a compliment and reminds me what a great kid I have (and reminds him what a great kid he is) it is so easy to lose perspective some days. I also bristle every time I hear someone refer to him as "such a boy" or comments that "boys will be boys" what a fucking cop-out, boys will be people.
Having a redhead boy somehow makes his overabundance of energy and lack of direction okay in the eyes of strangers. If he had brown hair they would be pissy... But I guess that is a whole 'nother blog.
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
I have a two year old son and frankly he is not that kind of kid. He is very verbal, physically more reserved and generally calm. He has his moment, of course, but he isn't a hit/grab/yell/run/jump/climb junkie.
And one of his best friends IS that kid, exactly. And this kid, A, likes to hit as kind of a greeting or something (he is two too) and throws things and runs away and is very difficult to deal with and his mom will tell him "no" and even get mad at him for repeatedly hitting another kid (or running or throwing or climbing or yelling) but never takes actual action. And really thats her parenting style-she's a "kids will work it out on their own" kinda gal. She lets him run around way more than I ever let my son (in public I mean) and is comfortable with it.
I have been afraid to do anything other than rescue my son. But it isn't good behavior on my part. It is not how I act with A when I (rarely) watch him - then I am more active and don't back down. BUt it's so hard to chase him and watch him every second to make sure that it doesn't happen. And since my kid is relatively tame I don't deal with those issues first hand much - I try to help my son by telling him to say "no" to the boy if he is doing things he doesn't like, to call for help if he is in over his head (can't get loose from his grip), pick him up, and hope that my kid won't be feel like a victim inside and that he won't have to resort to hitting, biting and kicking to stand up for himself.
I guess I don't know how to deal with this boy very well. Most of my son's friends were in his baby group and they all know each other well and were taught how to act and interact (and how not to) from the time they could crawl - and they rarely ever get into difficult stuff with each other, they usually can work it out because they have practice, they have had the same rules (in baby group) and the same method of teaching. The boy A has not attended the baby group and has little socialization. And while he could become a bully he may be pushed out of social groups becasue he can't interact comfortably, who knows. I wish I knew how to feel comfortable or what to do in this situation. I love this kid and don't have the answers.
And maybe I missed something on the original post. I think we need to not lump all high energy kids together. I have a loving high energy kid who seems to be categorized the same as a smacking everyone around HE kid. A little too much "their kids" vs. "my kids".
I also wanted to add... The kid at the pool in this story. How do we feel like we can really judge a situation by a few encounters with other families? Is it really so cut and dry? My mother seems to think so. If I had a dollar for everytime she has said "you need to teach Ike boundaries" (which my automatic reply to her consists of "How mother?" and then we go back and forth with her saying "you just NEED to find a way" me saying "what you want me to beat him to submission" blah blah blah.
I don't feel like I can judge my own sister's parenting skills (don't live with her or anything) let alone a stranger. Is it that pool day always coincides with chemo day for Mommy? Does Daddy have full custody with mom allowed to take the children to swimming lessons because he has all the money?
I don't know...
We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap.~K.V.
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"I think Kelly's point is that by yelling (without making eye contact or following through on threats) and not helping to correct behaviours we, as a community, run the risk of raising a boy who will constantly push limits and push/yell at people."
Sort of. Except I'd hope we are giving consequences, not threats. Eye contact, yes! And of course, we could raise a boy OR a girl this way.
In my example, this child did not receive any positive attention during the swim lesson. Nor did he receive follow-up when he misbehaved. I just thought it was interesting and wondered how much more of his life (besides the lessons I've observed) this is his experience.
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."