Y'all are making my nerves bad...
The bottom line as I see it:
Why the hell is it that everytime a black woman states her mind she is labeled as ANGRY or AGRESSIVE?
I am so sick as a black woman, a woman of color, a biracial woman, a nappy headed woman, (whatever label I choose to accept for myself this week) to notice that when myself and other black women or women of color challenge anyone on their beliefs which I hardly ever do on HM but often do IRL,
is it SO offensive to people? (whether it is directly and succinctly worded as such or not) Please stop feeling so defensive just because someone tells you they are somewhat exasperated of the experience of being a black woman on Hipmama! Every day of my life I wake up and I am a black woman. I cannot look away from it. If I log off the computer race does not go away for me. No matter what I change my screen name to...I am still black. It is tiring and exhausting, and whether people are intentionally trying to wear me or any other black woman out with what are often very innocent comments, it is still tiring, and damnit, I have a right to say so every once in a while.
It's not always about you.
"But is it my manner that keeps her from hearing, or the threat of a message that her life may change?"
-Audre Lorde
say "angry" or "aggressive". Of course the thread got very long and perhaps I missed it! I tried to keep up. It was more implied that the post was angry or aggressive or mean and I felt the accusations / (implications) from those who were upset were not specific to the race of the poster, but basically came down to the "Well don't be mean to me JUST BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN OF PALLOR." (I like that term BTW).
FWIW, and I hope I'm not hijacking, I find this argument ("don't be mean to me just because I'm white") rather in the spectrum of illegitamite or useless. I read the "Open Letter to the White Anti-Racist" on racetraitor.org and even though it got me feeling quasi-hopeless in parts, it boiled down to this: perhaps it is time to do more listening to the standpoint of the "women of color" and less counter-attack or counter-defense or whatever. Do we really need one more story of how I only touched your hair because it was SO PRETTY or SO UNIQUE or whatever? It seems more appropriate and less work to say, "OK, I can see why that could be viewed as offensive. Noted." and move on with a more informed perspective. Maybe I end up disagreeing but at least I take the time to DIGEST what you are saying. If I jump in with my INTENTIONS I am immediately not listening to, or letting resound, . P.S. this applies to SO much shit, so many, not just race!
Oh gee, lamesha4 had anger in her tone, or she was pissed. So fucking what? Aren't we allowed to be pissed? Does that mean she's a hater? Perhaps she is - I don't know (this was the first post of hers I've noticed, so my only exposure to her). But it's interesting if I'm a woman pissed at men on this site, virtually no one will label me a hater or nitpick better ways I could frame my concerns / complaints, because we most ALL know how it feels to be a woman maligned by men, and thus can listen to one another without the defenses etc.
For instance - the EASIEST loose analogy I can relate easily too - if I am vocalizing my irritation to a man regarding why it's insulting that he insists on opening the door for me (which I am not insulted by personally, but I have heard good arguments for why I could be), do I really want him to start immediately in on how I'm "one of those" feminists (angry, picky), or for him to start whining about why is he getting picked on for "just being nice" and he can't "help it" that he's a man? No - I would like that man to shut up and listen, not counter-report an OVER-REPORTED perspective. His response is not necessarily required. If he does respond I hope I can be respectful; but gee, we're not Christ walking on water, we're human, we're allowed to be who we are - pissed or not - without representing some ideal of feminism / "perfect" communication etc.
I don't know if I'm making complete and total sense and I also hope people give my comments some context - I am *not* trying to start more shit. FWIW I've found most of the discussion to be respectful.
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
You are making complete and total sense to me.
Most of the discussion, yes, it was respectful, and YES on this:
No - I would like that man to shut up and listen, not counter-report an OVER-REPORTED perspective.
That comes up over and over again.
Sunflower the unflower
Sunflower the unflower
well said, ms. h.
"perhaps it is time to do more listening to the standpoint of the "women of color" and less counter-attack or counter-defense or whatever."
exactly. well said. this is completely what it boils down to, imo.
"If a woman who sleeps with other women is smashing patriarchy, then a woman who sleeps with whomever she wants is just plain anarchy."
-Unknown
bd made the analogy about men not listening to women about sexism when i told him about the racism discussion here. it makes a lot of sense.
this part: "Do we really need one more story of how I only touched your hair because it was SO PRETTY or SO UNIQUE or whatever? It seems more appropriate and less work to say, "OK, I can see why that could be viewed as offensive. Noted." and move on with a more informed perspective. Maybe I end up disagreeing but at least I take the time to DIGEST what you are saying. If I jump in with my INTENTIONS I am immediately not listening to, or letting resound, . P.S. this applies to SO much shit, so many, not just race!" is especially true.
and word up, freedamomma for speaking your truth.
"we seek not rest but transformation. We are dancing through each other as doorways." ~ Marge Piercy
" If I jump in with my INTENTIONS I am immediately not listening to, or letting resound,"
Click. You just gave me a little lightbulb moment. Thanks for the reminder.
"It's not always about you."
WORD
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
~ Groucho Marx
well said, freedamomma.
i of course do not presume to know how you feel. not to hijack...but the most moved, in ohhhh, 6 years or so of working with clients in therapy, that i have ever been, was when a (black) client i had got to a breakthrough in therapy where he just sobbed and sobbed about a memory of a white woman screaming and running away from him with her child when he was running into her yard after a football. he had been so wounded for so long and had a serious addiction issue (hence being my client), and as i sat there with him, my heart just broke to think that this man's wound went back to that. i dunno, i mean i didn't pity him, i repected his suffering and let him sit in it. but it got inside of me that a life long self-loathing boiled down to this moment for him. it affected me deeply and it is why i never question people or challenge them about their experiences. i just sit there with them in it.
and it must be tiring, and yeah, you do thave the right to say so whenever you want.
Human suffering anywhere concerns men and women everywhere. Elie Wiesel
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
great minds and all that. earlier today, i posted the following on one of the recent race threads:
just about every single time race comes up on HM, the discussion gets heated. just about every single time this happens, someone {usually someone who presents here as white} says to someone else {usually someone who presents here as white} that maybe they should take a break from race-related posts for a while. just about every single time this happens, it pisses me off, and i don't say anything. this time, i'm saying something. {lucky kelly h., right? sorry.}
here's why it pisses me off. i can't take a break from race-related anything. ever. at all. neither can my partner or my daughter or any other non-white person i know. as long as we're living in white-supremacist, capitalist, heteropatriarchy, it isn't sane for non-white folks to pretend that anything isn't race-related {though many do anyway, and i've been one}. it's fucking exhausting. i'm weary. i can't rest from it. so, it's galling to hear other folks wear out after a heated online discussion.
the aforementioned white-supremacist, capitalist, heteropatriarchy is designed to make race something that happens to non-white people that white people can choose to address when they feel up to it. this is a huge part of the problem. white folks who want to be dedicated anti-racist allies should recognize this and not cop out, imho. when the kitchen is hot, that means there's some cookin going on, ya know? not the time to step away from the stove.
and just for the sake of efficiency, the exact same rant works for me as a queer person and an escaped working class person and as a woman, if ya just insert the appropriate terms for those respective identities/systems of oppression.
"if i pass for other than what i am/do you feel safer?" ~lani ka'ahumanu
www.walkingthewalls.blogspot.com
"dragon knows dragon
"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu
dragon knows dragon
not time to step away, but rather to roll up the sleeves and participate. learn, discuss, deal with it. racism is here. and the more we actually get the ovaries to talk about it the better.
"if i pass for other than what i am/do you feel safer?" ~lani ka'ahumanu
www.walkingthewalls.blogspot.com
"dragon knows dragon
It was actually your comments that sparked this post:).
and as always, i'm glad to have been of use.
"if i pass for other than what i am/do you feel safer?" ~lani ka'ahumanu
www.walkingthewalls.blogspot.com
"dragon knows dragon
thank you for that perspective. i never understand this either! when other women on this site share their hurt/anger/reality we rally around them and support them. when a woman dares to shine a light on racism or painful personal experiences relating to racism, we question, reduce, "relate" (you know what i mean), etc...
And what about this tacit denial that it is painful? That it fucking sucks to always have to defend oneself, to protect one's children from cops, strangers, even teachers sometimes... and yes, i dare to say it is FAR more dangerous to be a child of color in this society. I have never, for example, been stopped and harassed by a police officer simply for being white. For speeding, blowing stop signs, yes...and I didn't like it, and they were assholes...but not for being white.
And what is with giving one mama this superhuman power to SILENCE all other thought? Absurd.
I'm sorry this is wearing you out, mama. I can't begin to understand how hurtful and exhausting the whole thing can be.
I agree with you.
and I am sorry you are tired and it makes total sense to me that it is exhausting, especially in places where you really want support and sustenance. Say your piece when you want to, I for one welcome it.
there aren't more black women here... or do we wonder? i don't know. but it's to our disadvantage.
i, for one, didn't know how to respond to lamesha's blog, so i just didn't. i decided to wait and see more posts from her and form an opinion then. people were also referring to and quoting another blog that i hadn't read, so i tried to maintain an open mind that there may be some more substance to the offense than i could see in lamesha's blog, because frankly i didn't see anything disrespectful in it. i saw funny, i saw facetious, didn't see disrespect. so i thought i would read that other blog today and see what all the hubub is about and lo and behold! it's deleted.
so, i'm going to have to go ahead and judge lamesha based on her funny post alone.
and as to angry and aggressive, i am both, so if i judge someone as those things, it's a compliment.
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For the most part, I believe you are hearing where I am coming from....You are correct. No one said Angry or Agressive, that is why I made the comment about 'whether it is directly and succinctly worded as such'...
"Oh gee, lamesha4 had anger in her tone, or she was pissed. So fucking what? Aren't we allowed to be pissed?"
I agree...for example, as a black/biracial woman who is the product of a black man/white woman relationship and also married to a white man, I could have taken offense at Lamesha4's comments about black men marrying white women and producing children...however, it was not personal, and I am able to detach myself from the situation and realize the very valid (IMHO) place where she is coming from in making these comments...there was a time in my life when I would get really offended about other (darker skinned) black women saying shit like that to me...but I finally got to a place where I could really "hear" them, and understand that it is not always about me. Thank you for hearing me.