Help me understand
Because I really don't get it. How is it that a person who happens to be biologically a man is so different from a person who is biologically a woman but identifies as male? We've had a couple of individuals here like that, and both of them have been welcomed. Okay, so a person who is biologically male can't go through pregnancy or childbirth or breastfeed their child. But the same goes for a woman who adopts a child, doesn't it? Once the child is in the world, a parent parents. And single parents generally do the work of two parents, so a guy who happens to be a single parent probably has a pretty decent understanding, in some sense, of what moms tend to typically go through.
Anyway, I really don't care to stir anything up but I just didn't really get all that. Here's the thing: I really don't care that much about whether there is a man on here or not. I'm not going to censor myself. I think this board is always going to be made up mainly of women. Yeah, it's called "hipmama," was created by a mama, for mamas, and will likely remain such. A guy coming in and revering the mamas for their wisdom is certainly not going to upset the status quo unless he's allowed to. The other thing is, for me, the question is not so much "Who is allowed here?" or "Who is this board for?" as it is about us making the board/community what it is.
I'm with you. I don't understand why it was such a big deal.
"Before I was a Mom I didn't know the feeling of having my heart outside my body." ~Anonymous
if we are going to be engaging in that level of discourse, i just don't feel like this is home anymore. i hope it ends and ends now.
That's exactly what ran through my mind when it went down.
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
~ Groucho Marx
I recall denessasa mama being told "Fuck you" right on the board once. I cant remember who or why.
Boomer is so 2005.
I was pretty damn upset about it last night, too.
It's ironic, isn't it? All this talk about whether we feel safe with a man posting here, and then a woman goes and sends a private FU e-mail. I don't think it should be taken lightly either.
_________
Live and let live.
_________
"It takes a village, people!"
- Carson Kressley
it makes me really REALLY sad to hear that another mama in this community took such an aggressive tone with DK simply because they disagreed. i don't care what the disagreement was about, PMing someone a fat FU borders on verbally abusive in my book. way-way-way-the-fuck uncool.
Sounds like an attempt at silencing through intimidation to me.
Danger Kitty, you and your pesky higher-ground-not-naming-names ideals...
Fuck you
I totally agree.
i personally feel that people have a right to think what they want in terms of who should and shouldn't be here. however, it is not up to one person to make a decision for the entire board so their sole opinion isn't going to change the makeup of hipmama. i actually feel like people should be free to think/post completely different opinions from the majority and the majority doesn't have to like it or accept it but they/we do on some level need to respect it. we aren't all going to have the same opinion about every topic. i like that the lone dissenter(
speak up - as long as it is done respectfully, which often seems to be the hard part.
**edit** or rather, i should say, *I* can't help but to have some respect for someone who goes against the grain on this board, even if i stand in line with the grain.
people are always allowed to post their opinions.... its when it reaches a level of hatefulness (fuck yous) that it becomes uncalled for.
i just don't get why a guy trying to be a mother to his daughter caused so much stir here... either way you feel about it. i'm just suprised it reached the level it did. i mean is it really that big of a deal?
he has to be the mom for his girl the way SO MANY women have to be the father for their sons. what better place to do that than with a bunch of super cool moms? (except for the fuck you pmer)
"Before I was a Mom I didn't know the feeling of having my heart outside my body." ~Anonymous
other people's comments before posting my own. I completly agree.
"(except for the fuck you pmer)"
you rock, maggie'smom!
plus who's to say anyone on here is who they say they are? its the interNETS for fuck's sake. how do any of you know that i am actually a 36yo mama with a 15mo who wants to hang off my tits 24/7 and not some 74yo male perv with a mama fetish? lest we not forget that any bozo who can type hipmama.com into a browser can read our every intimate detail.
i spent a lot of time thinking about this last night (when i wasn't fuming over the FU PM) and when i imagined my male partner widowed and left to raise my daughter alone, i realized this is EXACTLY the place i'd want him to come to to get advice and guidance on raising my girlie. and i would hope you'd welcome him.
I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I also remember the last time this came up. Susan stepped in and was VERY CLEAR that these boards do not discriminate. Open forum. All welcome. People can have their opinions, absolutely. But the creators of this site have made it abundantly clear that anyone can join. I don't think it's up to us to go against that policy.
"Step off my big ass."
- Anthromom
This situation makes me sad on two levels, one that any mama would "attack" another instead of simply voicing their opinon. Everyone has been so accepting of different opinons, I am shock at this and saddened. Also, it seems to me that hipdad needs to be both dad and mama to this child and wants some honest help and advice, and isn't that what mamas are there for? He might not fit completely into the hipmama catagory, but him being here isn't gonna stop anyone from voicing their thoughts and opinons(obviously), he's more likely to get offended than any of us!
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings
Mummy's alright, Daddy's alright, they just seem a little weird...
I was actually talking to my husband last night about this. I rarely involve him with anything about hipmama, unless someone is pregnant, had a baby, or something devastating has happened. Anyway, his reaction was a very valid one much like your own. Hipdad now has to be both parents, needs advice on the mama part and is honestly trying to seek advice and opionions. When I was single with Boston I could've used some male influence to base my deciciions on. It is hard being a single parent and good for him trying to do it right. Or the best he can. We have supported many a gender issue people on here as they were trying to figure things out, and continue to do so. Acceptance is key.
So, where do I go to get information on being the FATHER to my children? Were I to go to a group of men and ask advice on FATHERING, I would get laughed out the door. I'm tired of explaining shit to men. I'm tired of having to take care of men. Seems like, whenever they can't figure something out, they find a woman to explain it to them. And we always do. But, when we can't figure something out WE GET PREYED UPON.
Yeh, Trula, you know it. I think I've read you saying something similar...
www.myspace.com/placentamusic
You are completly right. But it would be nice. And I think that was my point. That when I was doing it without a father I could've really used some points of views that were different than my own. And truly I don't know where we could get points of views of fathers. The explaining by women is a huge point!
well the difference to me is that the man born male had all their primary years of development as boy, as a male, whereas the man born female had their primary years of development as a girl, as a female. I know that a transman understands much of my experience as a woman. A born male man...their socialization is so skewed, so far removed from mine, in addition to how hormones affect their thinking, that it is often a big hurdle to have a real 'connection' with them as far as a genuine mutual exchange of ideas and understanding. I can't stand those Men/Mars Women/Venus books, but that author was right on with the title because it often seems to me like I'm talking to someone from another planet when I talk to men and often boys past the age of 6 or so. and I'm talking about males I love, like my husband, sons, father, brothers, cousins, and friends! I have been even more baffled when trying to talk to strange men. They overwhelmingly just don't get it, any of it, about sexism and patriarchy and changing women's roles and stuff like that. Even other (maybe) non-related things, like humor, their sense of humor is often so foreign to me.
Anyway! I will also not censor myself because at any rate we only have a few men here far as I know. I do have a comfort level though...I am not sure what it is but more than a few men posting here would definitely creep me out and make me feel...I don't know, like I have to metaphorically watch my back or have to be constantly explaining this and that. I just want to be able to talk about women and mama stuff and hash stuff out with women/other moms without having to give some man or men the 'background' info, right.
but how about if it was a thread filled with 3 men? 10? 20? I know my comfort level would be completely different talking about my cooch to a thread of 20 women as opposed to 20 men. not that I'm trying to get all slippery-slope, I'm not saying if you let a few in then we will have a whole bunch of men all of a sudden posting (and I am sure there are already plenty reading anyway). I'm just saying that I do have a comfort level when a women's space has/allows male members. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
I guess I don't understand what's so wrong with wanting or needing women-only space. I have seen the benefit of such spaces IRL and though I know hipmama is de facto a public space anyone can join, the title and tone of the site set the expectation that this is a place for women, specifically women who are mothers. men here is so...what's the word I'm looking for? Not neccessarily oppressive, maybe assumptive? It's like they are implying, there is no space like this for me out there so I'm just going to do the typical male thing and co-opt yours.
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There were FU PMs? Sent to whom?! That's just really, truly, completely uncalled for.